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RIAA murderer gets probation; but file downloader fined $30,000!!
Posted by Mike (Shmoo) on December 11, 2005 at 9:11 AM   (printer friendly)

first:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/10/nyregion/10sentence.html

December 10, 2005
Former Officer Gets Probation in Homicide
By ANEMONA HARTOCOLLIS

A former New York police officer was sentenced to probation yesterday
for fatally shooting an unarmed African immigrant in a Manhattan
warehouse. The judge placed the blame for the killing primarily on the
Police Department's training and supervision of the officer and the way
the operation that resulted in the killing was carried out.

The judge, Justice Robert H. Straus of State Supreme Court in Manhattan,
said that while the officer, Bryan A. Conroy, would have to live with
the consequences of killing the immigrant, Ousmane Zongo, he believed
the Police Department also needed to be held accountable.

In a blistering, nearly hourlong critique he delivered before
pronouncing sentence, the judge said Mr. Zongo's death had come about
because Mr. Conroy, who was relatively inexperienced, was
"insufficiently trained, insufficiently supervised, insufficiently led
on the day in question, by people who had the responsibility to make
sure he did nothing but protect and serve rather than end up taking a life."

In response to Justice Straus's criticism, Paul J. Browne, a Police
Department spokesman, said that the department's Internal Affairs Bureau
was resuming its investigation of the killing, "to determine whether
there were supervisory lapses," but noted that the department had
already changed some policies in the aftermath of the shooting.

Justice Straus convicted Mr. Conroy of criminally negligent homicide
following a nonjury trial in October, after a jury had deadlocked in his
first trial. Mr. Conroy faced up to four years in prison, but the judge
sentenced him to five years' probation and 500 hours of community
service. Mr. Conroy was fired from the department after his conviction,
which he is appealing.

Justice Straus said the police conduct of a raid at a storage warehouse
in Chelsea on May 23, 2003, during which Mr. Conroy shot Mr. Zongo four
times, was riddled with errors. Police officers involved in the raid,
which was aimed at a counterfeit CD and DVD operation, did not know how
to navigate the building, he said.

"Supervisors just ran out of rooms," he said. "There were people yelling
out of windows." Officers lacked handcuff keys and elevators were
inaccessible at a critical moment. There was, he said, "one series of
mistakes after another." Investigators determined that Mr. Zongo, an
immigrant from Burkina Faso, had nothing to do with the counterfeit
operation. Justice Straus suggested that Mr. Conroy, who had been left
alone to guard a storage bin on the third floor, reacted, perhaps
reasonably, out of fear when Mr. Zongo unexpectedly appeared in a corridor.

When confronted by Mr. Zongo, the judge said, Mr. Conroy assumed a
combat stance, drawing his gun and pointing it at the unarmed man. Yet,
the judge said, Mr. Conroy testified at his trial that he had no reason
to believe Mr. Zongo had done anything wrong, and was simply following
the training he had received about how to persuade somebody in those
circumstances to obey the police.

"Is that true? Is that what police are trained to do?" Justice Straus
said. "In the city of New York, how can a police officer be trained to
communicate with people by taking a combat stance?

Police officials said yesterday that officers were not taught to assume
a combat stance against unarmed civilians.

Justice Straus said he did not believe the defense account that Mr.
Zongo had been trying to grab Mr. Conroy's gun when he approached the
officer with his hands out, palms up. Mr. Conroy, the judge said, was
disguised in a mail carrier's uniform and his police shield was not
visible "in a meaningful way."

Other officers were not able to reach Mr. Conroy until after Mr. Zongo
had been shot, the judge said. At that point, he said, Mr. Zongo was
treated callously. He "lies there on the floor," the judge said. "No one
touches him. He's called a perp."

The judge did not hold the young officer solely responsible. He said it
might have been appropriate for other members of the Police Department
to be on trial. Mr. Conroy, Justice Straus said, was "a product of this
training, a product of this leadership; I find the leadership sorely
lacking on that particular day."

The judge described Mr. Conroy, 27, who was a police officer for about
three years, as decent and "well intentioned," but said he had been
trained to measure his success through his arrest rate.

The judge's criticisms of the department paralleled arguments that Mr.
Conroy's lawyer, Stuart London, made during the trial, and Mr. London
said in an interview that he was surprised by how profoundly the judge
had apparently been affected.

Mr. Browne said the Police Department's investigation of the episode had
been suspended during Mr. Conroy's trial, at the prosecution's request,
but he added that some internal administrative policies had already been
changed as a result of the case. Officers participating in an operation
in a precinct where they do not work are now required to notify that
precinct's command ahead of time. The department is also reviewing the
circumstances in which officers can wear civilian clothing, as Mr.
Conroy did at the time of the shooting.

Justice Straus was a criminal defense lawyer and a prosecutor before
being appointed to the Criminal Court bench in 1987.

In asking the judge for prison time, the prosecutor, Armand Durastanti,
said Mr. Conroy had "sought to take away one of the few meaningful
things that a man can leave behind, Mr. Zongo's reputation." In his
testimony, the prosecutor said, Mr. Conroy had portrayed Mr. Zongo as "a
madman, a grunting animal."

Mr. Conroy's sister and parents lowered their heads and wept as the
judge issued his sentence.

Mr. Zongo's uncle, Adama Zongo, 74, who lives in New York, said through
a translator that he did not understand why Mr. Conroy did not receive
prison time. "He knows for sure the family won't be happy about it," the
translator said. Mr. Zongo's widow, Salimata Sanfo, who lives in Burkina
Faso, did not attend, though a statement was read on her behalf in which
she said she had struggled to explain her husband's death to their two
young children.

The judge's scathing remarks about the Police Department could help the
Zongo family in its federal civil suit against the city, said their
lawyer, Sanford Rubenstein.

Mr. Conroy left the courthouse without commenting. Before sentencing, he
told the judge he was sorry for the "great pain" he had caused both
families.

_________________________________________________________

Now, check this out:
____________________________________________________________



In the
United States Court of Appeals
For the Seventh Circuit
____________
No. 05-1314
BMG MUSIC, et al.,
Plaintiffs-Appellees,
v.
CECILIA GONZALEZ,
Defendant-Appellant.
____________
Appeal from the United States District Court for the
Northern District of Illinois, Eastern Division.
No. 03 C 6276—Blanche M. Manning, Judge.
____________
ARGUED OCTOBER 27, 2005—DECIDED DECEMBER 9, 2005
____________
Before EASTERBROOK, EVANS, and WILLIAMS, Circuit
Judges.
EASTERBROOK, Circuit Judge. Last June the Supreme
Court held in MGM Studios, Inc. v. Grokster, Ltd., 125
S. Ct. 2764 (2005), that a distributed file-sharing system is
engaged in contributory copyright infringement when
its principal object is the dissemination of copyrighted
material. The foundation of this holding is a belief that
people who post or download music files are primary
infringers. In re Aimster Copyright Litigation, 334 F.3d 643,
645 (7th Cir. 2003), which anticipated Grokster, made the
same assumption. In this appeal Cecilia Gonzalez, who
downloaded copyrighted music through the KaZaA filesharing
network, denies the premise of Grokster and
2 No. 05-1314
Aimster. She contends that her activities were fair use
rather than infringement. The district court disagreed
and granted summary judgment for the copyright proprietors
(to which we refer collectively as BMG Music). 2005
U.S. Dist. LEXIS 910 (N.D. Ill. Jan. 7, 2005). The court enjoined
Gonzalez from further infringement and awarded
$22,500 in damages under 17 U.S.C. §504(c).
A “fair use” of copyrighted material is not infringement.
Gonzalez insists that she was engaged in fair use under the
terms of 17 U.S.C. §107—or at least that a material dispute
entitles her to a trial. It is undisputed, however, that she
downloaded more than 1,370 copyrighted songs during a
few weeks and kept them on her computer until she was
caught. Her position is that she was just sampling music to
determine what she liked enough to buy at retail. Because
this suit was resolved on summary judgment, we must
assume that Gonzalez is telling the truth when she says
that she owned compact discs containing some of the songs
before she downloaded them and that she purchased others
later. She concedes, however, that she has never owned
legitimate copies of 30 songs that she downloaded. (How
many of the remainder she owned is disputed.)
Instead of erasing songs that she decided not to buy,
she retained them. It is these 30 songs about which there is
no dispute concerning ownership that formed the basis of
the damages award. This is not a form of time-shifting,
along the lines of Sony Corp. of America v. Universal
Studios, Inc., 464 U.S. 417 (1984) (Betamax). A copy
downloaded, played, and retained on one’s hard drive for
future use is a direct substitute for a purchased copy—and
without the benefit of the license fee paid to
the broadcaster. The premise of Betamax is that the
broadcast was licensed for one transmission and thus one
viewing. Betamax held that shifting the time of this single
viewing is fair use. The files that Gonzalez obtained, by contrast,
were posted in violation of copyright law; there was
No. 05-1314 3
no license covering a single transmission or hearing—and,
to repeat, Gonzalez kept the copies. Time-shifting by an
authorized recipient this is not. See William M. Landes &
Richard A. Posner, The Economic Structure of Intellectual
Property Law 117-22 (2003).
Section 107 provides that when considering a defense
of fair use the court must take into account “(1) the purpose
and character of the use, including whether such use is of
a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;
(2) the nature of the copyrighted work; (3) the
amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to
the copyrighted work as a whole; and (4) the effect of the
use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted
work.” Gonzalez was not engaged in a nonprofit use;
she downloaded (and kept) whole copyrighted songs (for
which, as with poetry, copying of more than a couplet or two
is deemed excessive); and she did this despite the fact that
these works often are sold per song as well as per album.
This leads her to concentrate on the fourth consideration:
“the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value
of the copyrighted work.”
As she tells the tale, downloading on a try-before-you-buy
basis is good advertising for copyright proprietors, expanding
the value of their inventory. The Supreme
Court thought otherwise in Grokster, with considerable
empirical support. As file sharing has increased over the
last four years, the sales of recorded music have dropped by
approximately 30%. Perhaps other economic factors contributed,
but the events likely are related. Music downloaded
for free from the Internet is a close substitute for purchased
music; many people are bound to keep the downloaded files
without buying originals. That is exactly what Gonzalez did
for at least 30 songs. It is no surprise, therefore, that the
only appellate decision on point has held that downloading
copyrighted songs cannot be defended as fair use, whether
or not the recipient plans to buy songs she likes well enough
4 No. 05-1314
to spring for. See A&M Records, Inc. v. Napster, Inc., 239
F.3d 1004, 1014-19 (9th Cir. 2001). See also UMG Recordings,
Inc. v. MP3.com, Inc., 92 F. Supp. 2d 349 (S.D.N.Y.
2000) (holding that downloads are not fair use even if the
downloader already owns one purchased copy).
Although BMG Music sought damages for only the 30
songs that Gonzalez concedes she has never purchased, all
1,000+ of her downloads violated the statute. All created
copies of an entire work. All undermined the means by
which authors seek to profit. Gonzalez proceeds as if the
authors’ only interest were in selling compact discs containing
collections of works. Not so; there is also a market in
ways to introduce potential consumers to music.
Think of radio. Authors and publishers collect royalties on
the broadcast of recorded music, even though these broadcasts
may boost sales. See Broadcast Music, Inc. v. Columbia
Broadcasting System, Inc., 441 U.S. 1 (1979) (discussing
the licenses available from performing rights societies for
radio and television broadcasts). Downloads from peer-topeer
networks such as KaZaA compete with licensed
broadcasts and hence undermine the income available to
authors. This is true even if a particular person never buys
recorded media. Cf. United States v. Slater, 348 F.3d 666
(7th Cir. 2003). Many radio stations stream their content
over the Internet, paying a fee for the right to do so.
Gonzalez could have listened to this streaming music to
sample songs for purchase; had she done so, the authors
would have received royalties from the broadcasters (and
reduced the risk that files saved to disk would diminish the
urge to pay for the music in the end).
Licensed Internet sellers, such as the iTunes Music Store,
offer samples—but again they pay authors a fee for the
right to do so, and the teasers are just a portion of the
original. Other intermediaries (not only Yahoo! Music
Unlimited and Real Rhapsody but also the revived Napster,
No. 05-1314 5
with a new business model) offer licensed access to large
collections of music; customers may rent the whole library
by the month or year, sample them all, and purchase any
songs they want to keep. New technologies, such as SNOCAP,
enable authorized trials over peer-to-peer systems. See Saul
Hansell, Putting the Napster Genie Back in the Bottle,
New York Times (Nov. 20, 2005); see also
http://www.snocap.com.
Authorized previews share the feature of evanescence: if
a listener decides not to buy (or stops paying the rental fee),
no copy remains behind. With all of these means available
to consumers who want to choose where to spend their
money, downloading full copies of copyrighted material
without compensation to authors cannot be deemed “fair
use.” Copyright law lets authors make their own decisions
about how best to promote their works; copiers such as
Gonzalez cannot ask courts (and juries) to second-guess the
market and call wholesale copying “fair use” if they think
that authors err in understanding their own economic
interests or that Congress erred in granting authors the
rights in the copyright statute. Nor can she defend by
observing that other persons were greater offenders; Gonzalez’s
theme that she obtained “only 30” (or “only 1,300”)
copyrighted songs is no more relevant than a thief’s
contention that he shoplifted “only 30” compact discs,
planning to listen to them at home and pay later for any he
liked.
BMG Music elected to seek statutory damages under 17
U.S.C. §504(c)(1) instead of proving actual injury. This
section provides that the author’s entitlement, per infringed
work, is “a sum of not less than $750 or more than $30,000
as the court considers just.” But if an “infringer sustains the
burden of proving, and the court finds, that such infringer
was not aware and had no reason to believe that his or her
acts constituted an infringement of copyright, the court in
its discretion may reduce the award of statutory damages
6 No. 05-1314
to a sum of not less than $200.” 17 U.S.C. §504(c)(2).
Gonzalez asked the district court to reduce the award under
this proviso, but the judge concluded that §402(d) bars any
reduction in the minimum award. This subsection provides:
“If a notice of copyright in the form and position specified by
this section appears on the published phonorecord or
phonorecords to which a defendant in a copyright infringement
suit had access, then no weight shall be given to such
a defendant’s interposition of a defense based on innocent
infringement in mitigation of actual or statutory damages”.
It is undisputed that BMG Music gave copyright notice as
required—“on the surface of the phonorecord, or on the
phonorecord label or container” (§402(c)). It is likewise
undisputed that Gonzalez had “access” to records and
compact disks bearing the proper notice. She downloaded
data rather than discs, and the data lacked copyright
notices, but the statutory question is whether “access” to
legitimate works was available rather than whether
infringers earlier in the chain attached copyright notices to
the pirated works. Gonzalez readily could have learned, had
she inquired, that the music was under copyright.
If BMG Music had requested more than $750 per work,
then Gonzalez would have been entitled to a trial. See
Feltner v. Columbia Pictures Television, Inc., 523 U.S. 340
(1998). What number between $750 and $30,000 is “just”
recompense is a question for the jury, unless both sides
agree to decision by the court. But BMG Music was content
with $750 per song, which the district judge awarded
on summary judgment. Gonzalez contends that this was
improper: Feltner, she contends, holds that a jury must
decide whether even the statutory minimum award will
be allowed.
Feltner holds that a claim for statutory damages under
§504(c) is a suit at law to which the seventh amendment
applies. This does not mean, however, that a jury must
resolve every dispute. When there are no disputes of
No. 05-1314 7
material fact, the court may enter summary judgment
without transgressing the Constitution. See Fidelity &
Deposit Co. v. United States, 187 U.S. 315 (1902). See also
Galloway v. United States, 319 U.S. 372 (1943); Gasoline
Products Co. v. Champlin Refining Co., 283 U.S. 494 (1931).
While acknowledging this proposition, Gonzalez insists that
copyright cases are different. She relies entirely on a single
passage from Feltner: “The right to a jury trial includes the
right to have a jury determine the amount of statutory
damages, if any, awarded to the copyright owner.” 523 U.S.
at 353 (emphasis in original). Gonzalez maintains that by
adding “if any” the Court allowed a jury to send an author
home empty handed, even if the statute makes $750 the
minimum. In other words, she contends that Feltner creates
a system of jury nullification unique to copyright litigation.
The Justices did not purport to give defendants in
copyright cases the right to ask jurors to return verdicts in
the teeth of the law. The sentence we have quoted is a
general description of the jury’s role, which the Court
drew from seventeenth-century English jurisprudence.
That’s hardly a plausible source for a rule unique to
American copyright law. In Feltner neither side had
sought summary judgment. We read Feltner as establishing
no more (and no less) than that cases under §504(c) are
normal civil actions subject to the normal allocation
of functions between judge and jury. When there is a
material dispute of fact to be resolved or discretion to be
exercised in selecting a financial award, then either
side is entitled to a jury; if there is no material dispute
and a rule of law eliminates discretion in selecting the
remedy, then summary judgment is permissible. See
Segrets, Inc. v. Gillman Knitwear Co., 207 F.3d 56, 65 n.7
(1st Cir. 2000).
Gonzalez says that the ninth circuit understood Feltner
differently on remand, but that’s mistaken. A jury trial was
held—for there were material factual disputes—and the
8 No. 05-1314
jury returned a verdict of $31.68 million in statutory
damages (or $72,000 per infringed work, an award
made possible by the jury’s conclusion that infringement
had been wilful). The defendant, ruing its Pyrrhic victory in
the Supreme Court (the judge’s original award, which the
Court vacated, had been $8.8 million), maintained
that §504(c) is unconstitutional, and that only actual
damages may be awarded, because §504(c) does not provide
for a jury trial. The court of appeals rejected that contention,
noting that after the Supreme Court’s decision a jury
trial had been held. See Columbia Pictures Industries, Inc.
v. Krypton Broadcasting of Birmingham, Inc., 259 F.3d
1186, 1192-93 (9th Cir. 2001). Whether a jury resolves the
dispute because of statutory language or because of the
seventh amendment is all the same to the litigants. It is not
possible to find, in a decision affirming a jury’s verdict, a
rule of law that a jury is required even when there are no
factual disputes to resolve and no discretion to exercise.
As for the injunction: Gonzalez contends that this
should be vacated because she has learned her lesson, has
dropped her broadband access to the Internet, and is
unlikely to download copyrighted material again. A private
party’s discontinuation of unlawful conduct does not
make the dispute moot, however. An injunction remains
appropriate to ensure that the misconduct does not recur as
soon as the case ends. See United States v. W.T. Grant Co.,
345 U.S. 629 (1953). The district court did not abuse its
discretion in awarding prospective relief.
AFFIRMED
No. 05-1314 9
A true Copy:
Teste:
________________________________
Clerk of the United States Court of
Appeals for the Seventh Circuit
USCA-02-C-0072—12-9-05


User Comments (These do not necessarily reflect the beliefs of this site)

goldenpi  
Date: December 11, 2005 @ 11:47 AM
Could someone translate the second part to english?I dont speak legalese.

gdZiemann  
Date: December 11, 2005 @ 12:05 PM
It says the offense of this 14-year-old girl carries a greater legal penalty than the murder of an innocent person.

TotallyFrust...  
Date: December 11, 2005 @ 12:18 PM
"Gonzalez contends that this
should be vacated because she has learned her lesson, has
dropped her broadband access to the Internet, and is
unlikely to download copyrighted material again. A private
party’s discontinuation of unlawful conduct does not
make the dispute moot, however. An injunction remains
appropriate to ensure that the misconduct does not recur as
soon as the case ends. See United States v. W.T. Grant Co.,
345 U.S. 629 (1953). The district court did not abuse its
discretion in awarding prospective relief."

Thank you judge....This logic would also be applicable in the upcoming Sony Spyware suits. After all, isn't the RIAA stance that "Sony appogogized and removed the CDs. They also promised to replace the defective discs and offer an unistall...(per Cary Sue).

It seems even this court believes that an appology isn't enough. By the above statement, one would believe that there should be an additional penalty as "appropriate to ensure that the misconduct does not recur as
soon as the case ends."

For any of thwe legals out there....Can this be a valid arguement in the upcoming cases?

teknosoul02  
Date: December 11, 2005 @ 12:42 PM
I FUCKING KNEW IT!!!!

ONLY IN FUCKING AMERIKA, can a person who MURDERS somebody receive "probation" while a person who merely downloads 30 songs is FORCED to fucking pay $22,500.

This country is fucked up!!!! I've been saying it all along, a person who commits homicide will receive a much lesser penalty than someone who fucking downloads music!!!!!

Olde-Phart  
Date: December 11, 2005 @ 1:38 PM
Wait a minute, the bigger picture is this: the man was murdered in a raid on a "CD and DVD counterfeiting operation."

This wasn't a drug bust, or a bust on a kiddie porn ring. This was simply a raid to catch "pirates". There is no physical damage or harm (that I know of) to human beings caused by the pirating of copyrighted material. How does that raid justify the use of deadly force?

This is just crazy. Sony can plant software on a LEGITIMATE music buyer's computer that exposes networks to real security risks, a music pirate can be shot and killed without jail time for the murderer, and a downloader is extorted for over $20,000.

I agree w/ tekno, WTF is wrong with this country?

NiceGuy2003  
Date: December 11, 2005 @ 2:32 PM
So now they say that when we time-shift something, we must immediately erase the tape after we view it?

captdunsel  
Date: December 11, 2005 @ 4:23 PM
not exactly.

what they are really saying is this


"we own you. we own your money, your brain and your soul. worship us. pay tribute. do it gladly. you must suffer so we can live well. pay dearly and if we think you are not paying dearly enough we will take more."

pay no attention to that man behind the curtain. he is downloading illegal music and movies and he will be eviscerated soon enough.

captdunsel  
Date: December 11, 2005 @ 6:19 PM
"I am altering the terms of our agreement. pray that I do not alter it further." -- Darth Vader, the empire strikes back

Otaku-Of-Tom...  
Date: December 11, 2005 @ 6:51 PM
I hate to say it, but the arguments of the court seem legitimate to me, at least in the file-sharing case. Even if you’re downloading as an act of civil disobedience to prove a point that our laws our wrong, you still know you’re breaking the law and shouldn’t be surprised if you’re punished, should you get caught. It doesn’t appear that Gonzalez offered valid arguments or showed enough evidence as to why she was deserving of sympathy due to ignorance of the law under believe in her fair use rights.

The case of the murder, on the other hand, is just another blatant example of how the courts protect the police when they victimize minorities. If the victim had been a white person deemed of some social value, jail time would probably have been the least of the defendant’s worries.

What it all boils down to is that our pledge of allegiance should be rewritten to read “And liberty and justice for all who can afford to pay for it.” As long as the decisions of courts are based on who can afford the best legal army, the average citizen of this country is just plain out of luck. You can’t win. So why try?

The mistake everyone involved in these lawsuits made was being interested in RIAA music in the first place. Maybe if there is enough wailing and misery from those who insisted on being interested in RIAA products, people will finally get the message that the RIAA insignia on any product is equivalent to the Surgeon General’s warning on a pack of cigarettes. It’s bad for you. Use this product at your own risk.

captdunsel  
Date: December 11, 2005 @ 9:30 PM
otaku is pretty much right on the money here.

my whole problem is this - why should copyright infringement be such a priority? every day I see at least one article in the local news about stuff that the cops really should have taken seriously but didn't and it usually results in somebody dying. at the same time here are plenty of articles about them suing filesharers to death.

I just have to wonder why filesharing became so much more important than the guy running the meth lab down the street from me.

gfmlcka  
Date: December 11, 2005 @ 11:50 PM
if you want to see illegal copying of copyrighted materials just go to any law firm and stand around the Xerox machine.

hypocrites.

teknosoul02  
Date: December 12, 2005 @ 12:47 AM
I just have to wonder why filesharing became so much more important than the guy running the meth lab down the street from me.

=========================

Because America is corrupt...I honestly believe that we are living in a nation full of corruption. The most corrupt individuals run the nation, the most corrupt scum decide the laws, the most corrupt scum are easily bribed by filth like the RIAA.

Only in this country can you get away with putting spyware on CDs which pose a legitimate security threat to your own personal privacy.

Again, it's funny that in this country, you kill someone and you get a slap in the wrist, but you illegally download music and you either risk going to jail or having to pay hefty fine.

Now I know some RIAA supporters will try to justify this by saying that the difference is that the cop who killed the person did in accidentally while there was the infringer had a "bad faith intent" to download music, but isn't there something wrong w/ society where people's lives can be completely ruined because of a few songs?

TrueAudio  
Date: December 12, 2005 @ 2:35 AM
OK, NOW I AM FUCKING PISSED

and for that, I reserved this piece of satire which I have written. If you never hear from me again after posting this, its because I was secretly kidnapped in the P.S.A. I assure you, I will be dead, if you never hear from me again. But FUCK them, I'm exercising my 1st Amendment rights, and if I can't do that, then this country can and will burn in hell.

But to really drive the reality home as to what captdunsel is saying, here is my satire.

Note: The entirety of this article is satire

Top Secret

President of Brazil, Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva was secretly assassinated by a black-ops unit as a joint effort by the MPAA (Motion Picture Association of America) and the CIA. Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva was deemed far to great a threat to worldwide digital rights management, and international copyright
enforcement directives under the NWO (New World Order) with his strong commitment to having implemented Linux nationwide throughout Brazil's IP infrastructure.

Ultra high technology 9th generation bugs planted within a secret meeting room at Bohemian Grove in northern California recorded the following about this event:

CIA director: "Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva's insistence on continuing to reject international DRM mandates has led us into this inevitable tactical execution. For the next phase of our Eurasia directive, we must not allow anyone to become empowered with the freedom from DRM that Linux operating systems provide the public at large."

RIAA President: "The Internet has become too powerful, but with the elimination of the Brazilian President, full integration of Brazil within the FBI Echelon and Sentry TIA (Total Information Awareness) systems will be unimpeded, now that our newly lobbied in replacement for Mr. Lula da Silva will be much more, shall we say, "cooperative".

Illuminati President: "Even now, the CIA front group, Fox News, has reported that our pawn, al-Zaraqi has claimed responsibility for the assassination. Soon we shall move forward with Phase 3 of the Eurasia Directive. Our control will not be absolute until this countries DNA database is complete and the remaining Americans have been implanted with our wetware biometric neuro-controller".

MPAA President: "The DRM biometric neuro controller will immediately initiate a transfer of funds from their bank anytime they whistle a copyrighted tune, or even think of one. Now that the Internet has its destruction guaranteed, we will finally recoup the trillions of dollars from those damn pirates."

WIPO (World Intellectual Property Organization) President: "We never really cared about copyright, To think everyone bought our propaganda that we gave a damn about it, haha, with the DRM biometric
neuro-controller, we own the rights to their bodies and minds, which is all we wanted in the first place. It's a shame that it took us this long. I would have thought that 9-11 and PATRIOT ACT I & II would have facilitated their enslavement far sooner."

Illuminati President: "Failure to follow our mandatory chip implant directive will result in immediate death, execution style, of any offender. Our media empire has effectively desensitized the nation to torture, murder, suffering, terror, the vilification of their so-called God, and so-called savior, Jesus. Soon the world will be ours, they cannot resist the power of the Beast. We must exterminate the true Christians first, as they will be most dangerous to us. The pathetic U.S. Constitution will crumble at our feet."

End of transmission

Our operatives cover was blown while trying to plant another bug at a location at Bohemian Grove where a discussion about electronically manipulating votes by the heads of state regarding a Constitutional Amendment to allow foreigners to run for President of the United States was taking place. It was later discovered by an email we decrypted from the DCI (Director of Central Intelligence) that this man was captured, and beheaded. The above digital transmission was nonetheless received, stored remotely, and safely recovered.

Note: The entirety of this article is satire



INeedAlover  
Date: December 12, 2005 @ 10:39 AM
Clearly the value of one's copyrighted material far exceeds the value of a human life. Makes sense, doesn't it? I mean, after all, the term life of a copyrighted material is the author's life plus 70 years after death OR 95 years. Clearly they have far superior value than a human that lives 70-80 years. How else can you explain this miscarriage of justice?

NiceGuy2003  
Date: December 12, 2005 @ 10:50 AM
It also explains why many of our leaders are so hell bent on keeping brain dead people alive. If an "author" can't die, then the copyright can never expire.

I belive Pink Floyd summed it all up in their song, "Money". It's all people care about. You might say you don't, but you do. And, if you're like the labels and other content providers, you want to amass as much money as you want, regardless of the tactics you must use. Make billions a year but notice one CD didn't sell well. No problem, just use archaic laws and say the CD was pirated and then rob anyone caught listening to it on an iPod.

RaidHHI  
Date: December 12, 2005 @ 1:28 PM
I'm not really surprised by this. She was caught with her hand in the cookie jar.

Now then, do you honestly think the RIAA is falling to it's knees because of this website? you guys used to claim nobody had been nailed by the courts yet, well; now she has.. Expect more to follow.


teknosoul02  
Date: December 12, 2005 @ 2:55 PM
RaidHHI,

let me ask you a serious question?

How can condone the actions of a crooked industry that is known for putting illegal spyware onto people's computers (the Sony Rootkit disaster)?

I hope that Sony is found guilty and HIT HARD w/ heavy damages; it'll show those bastards that they're not above the law.

I guess it's okay to put spyware into people's computers which have the potential to jeopardize personal security, but no, if you download music, you deserve to have your head chopped off!!!!

MP3user  
Date: December 12, 2005 @ 3:54 PM
"Now then, do you honestly think the RIAA is falling to it's knees because of this website? "

Nice irellevent strawman... try again.

RaidHHI  
Date: December 12, 2005 @ 3:56 PM
teknosoul02,

I do not condone what they do. I formed a ripping group a few years ago as a result of the actions taken against the original Napster.

At the same time however, I'm not surprised that she lost. She did break the law, and she had a chance to settle. Many people here foolishly thought they could just do whatever, the RIAA would have to prove it. Everybody shouting, nobodies been to court yet. Well, one has, and she lost. thats the precedent. You can expect more where that came from.

As far as Sony's concerned, they didn't create an actual rootkit, but I'm tired of explaining why it's not really a rootkit, I've decided to let the ignorant remain that way. Besides, it makes for a good laugh to start my otherwise shitty day.

downloading music isn't what got her nailed, the fact she was sharing the goods is. Important difference, there chum.

Now then, what shall you do for this year boycotters? Your making such a dent so far. *chuckle*

RaidHHI  
Date: December 12, 2005 @ 4:00 PM
Mp3user,

I wasn't trying anything. I said she'd be found guilty when it started. It took long enough, but she has been found guilty. The RIAA is going to move like a freight train now, and take some more foolish individuals with them.

It's saddening, and funny at the same time. What an ego crush her guilty verdict must be. I told you guys along time ago, You can't break the copyright laws forever. Nobody would listen. Everyone talking shit. Well, the shit hit the fan, and look who it landed on. Hint: Not the RIAA.

Face some hard facts people:

1. Your boycott isn't significant enough to even register on the radar.
2. Your legalize bullshit isn't working, Her own lawyers dropped her when they realized they were fucked.
3. If your caught, be a man and settle, own up to your actions, or burn like she did.
4. Boycotting music you like is not hurting the riaa in the least little bit. You only deprive yourself of good music.


DeadMan2003  
Date: December 12, 2005 @ 4:19 PM
RaidHHI you preach the RIAA 'law' like it's gospel. It has never been proven that the laws of copyright are 'right'. Only who has the most money to buy the laws of the land.

Fobix  
Date: December 12, 2005 @ 4:33 PM

1. Your boycott isn't significant enough to even register on the radar.

True. Because our boycott is limited to the relatively small population of our "club". BR is currently a passive club, where membership is welcome and action is limited to reading and posting to forums. To be effective, BR must become an organization bent on effecting change through action. Our accomplishments this year have been limited to flamewars and getting an off-topic link on the homepage. BR is effectively a noun, whereas to be effective it needs to be a verb.

2. Your legalize bullshit isn't working, Her own lawyers dropped her when they realized they were fucked.

Because, like the RIAA, the lawyers are motivated by greed/power/notoriety.

4. Boycotting music you like is not hurting the riaa in the least little bit. You only deprive yourself of good music.

It's not hurting them because not enough people are doing it. Not enough people are doing it because they are not being exposed/informed of the need and the alternatives. This is where we fail. The admin of this site has his hands tied and cannot make any practical changes. The owner has a business to run and has no time/inclination to grow the site. Very few visitors have the desire to take our message to the streets. It's really a self defeating thing.

RaidHHI  
Date: December 12, 2005 @ 4:37 PM
DeadMan2003,

Your confusing the law with morals and ethics; They are not often the same thing. The law is pretty clear with regard to copyright infringement. IE: what is, and what is not. I'm sorry you feel it's about the money, that's not the case. I've won a copyright lawsuit in my home state against a local computer shop illegally using my software. I did that when I was 14, I had no money, and thus didn't buy any laws.

I'm not preaching anything to do with the RIAA. the RIAA doesn't make the copyright laws. They are just enforcing the copyrights they own, like I could, like anyone who owns a copyright could.

So quit confusing morals and ethics with the law, their usually on opposite sides of the fence anyway. It might not be morally right for them to collect nearly 30k from her, but from a legal standpoint, it is perfectly withen their rights. They could have gotten more if they wanted. She's lucky she got off that easy. Wasting the courts time and all.

Otaku-Of-Tom...  
Date: December 12, 2005 @ 4:41 PM
“The most corrupt individuals run the nation, the most corrupt scum decide the laws”

This is news? I remember in the early 80’s when some preppie asked me obliviously, “Why shouldn’t I trust the government?” What I said was, “My God, you fool, what do you think we went through all that crap in the 60’s for?” But what I was really thinking was, “Good grief, this country is doomed.”

People in this country are always asking stupid questions. How do I know the government is corrupt and on the take from big business? How do I know the RIAA isn’t an organized crime operation? How do I know smoking is really bad for my health? What difference does it make that we went to war over weapons of mass destruction that didn’t exist? Etc, etc, etc.

Might as well ask why should I look both ways before I cross the street if the traffic light says walk? Or, why shouldn’t I put this gun to my head and pull the trigger if somebody told me it wasn’t loaded?

What is up with Americans that they need to have iron clad proof of danger shoved in their face before they’ll lift a finger to protect themselves from well documented dangers, or start paying attention to track records and use their intuition to make sensible decisions. How is it possible that so many people haven’t noticed what a bad track record our government has in terms of being honest with us or putting our individual rights and safety high on their list of priorities?

“Note: The entirety of this article is satire”

That thing I read in the off-topic thread about Bush conspiring with the British to “accidentally” bomb a TV station that was saying things he didn’t like - was that satire too?

“Now then, do you honestly think the RIAA is falling to it's knees because of this website? you guys used to claim nobody had been nailed by the courts yet, well; now she has.. Expect more to follow.”

This was more a case of someone admitting they did the crime and asking for sympathy because the law was unjust. The court showed it has no sympathy for the common people. No surprise there.

But this wasn’t really the test case we’ve been waiting for. What I’m more interested in is the cases where the individuals don’t even have computers and the RIAA will be compelled to show how they magically downloaded music without one.


"Boycotting music you like is not hurting the riaa in the least little bit. You only deprive yourself of good music."

That's a matter of taste. I started Boycotting the RIAA when they started boycotting my taste in music. I never had any thoughts of hurting them, just of getting their foul excuses for modern music out of my ears.

My boycott is a personal thing, like being a vegetarian. It's something I do as a matter of moral principle. I don't eat animals, and I don't fund organized criminals.

I’m not out to stop them or hurt them. I just don’t go along with things I don’t believe in. And I don’t believe in funding an organized crime group that is using music as a means of lowering the quality of life for the entire world. Shame on them for their crimes. Shame on me if I fund their crimes.

teknosoul02  
Date: December 12, 2005 @ 4:45 PM
Actually, RaidHHI, it IS all about the money.

Who bribed Congress to pass the draconian DMCA laws? The RIAA basically begged and bitched to Congress to get the draconian DMCA laws passed...and if that didn't work, they just continued to throw money in congress's faces until they finally caved in and passed the laws.

Copyright laws are suppose to be protecting authors against those WHO PROFIT OFF SOMEONE ELSE'S WORK, ie INFRINGMENT FOR COMMERCIAL USE. It wasn't until the RIAA twisted the copyright laws with the fucking DMCA did the RIAA have the right to go after file sharers who were NOT PROFITING OFF SOMEONE ELSE'S WORK.

I'm not saying it's right to download/upload music you do not have permission from the authors to do; but if there is no profit gain involved, no commercial advantage, why the fuck should you be forced to pay tens of thousands of dollars? Seriously, in this country, you can practically get less if you commit accidental homicide...

MajorTreat  
Date: December 12, 2005 @ 5:01 PM
RaidHHI IS AN RIAA AGENT!
Ignore RaidHHI!


MajorTreat  
Date: December 12, 2005 @ 5:08 PM
The DMCA look like a law but it is not the law. The constitution is.

However in countries where the law the institution and the businesses are corrupted there is no point talking about the law.

Just get your guns!

By the way the rope is breaking!

RaidHHI  
Date: December 12, 2005 @ 5:16 PM
First,

I'm not an RIAA agent of any kind. It's that ignorance I chuckle so often here about. Disagreeing with you doesn't make one an RIAA agent.

Second,
the DMCA isn't the one allowing the RIAA to enforce the copyrights, they'd be able to do that without it. I'd suggest you read up on what the DMCA actually is before you spout such ignorant shit like that again.

Third,
Since I'm not allowed to post direct links, I'll post one link which requires more clicking to get to the goods. You can all see, that I am certainly NOT a supporter of the RIAA. Unless your going to tell me the riaa appreciates HHI's efforts...

http://www.mininova.org/search/?search=hhi

Now then.... Any questions?

MajorTreat  
Date: December 12, 2005 @ 5:20 PM
RaidHHI IS AN RIAA AGENT!
Ignore RaidHHI!

RaidHHI  
Date: December 12, 2005 @ 5:49 PM
MajorTreat,

Can you prove any of your assinine claims? Any at all? Besides the good laugh your providing, I mean.

Is it normal to be accused of shit all the time from you, without you having to back it up? Is that the maturity level of the administration here? Fuck, Independent, did you work for AOL or something?

Otaku-Of-Tom...  
Date: December 12, 2005 @ 6:11 PM
RaidHHI,

Are you saying with this link that you create torrents for RIAA material? If so, why are you breaking the law that you want us to believe you know so well? This does not make sense to me. Please explain your position.

teknosoul02  
Date: December 12, 2005 @ 6:12 PM
RaidHHI, I didn't say that the DMCA was the one that gave the RIAA *all* the rights to enforce their copyright......

But it does seem that the DMCA does give filth like the RIAA EXPANSIVE powers to go after alleged infringers. Originally, copyright infringement had to have a monetary gain or commercial intent to receive statutory damages. Thanks to the fucking DMCA, a person who allegedly downloads just ONE song is on par with the REAL pirates who try to profit off others' works. Isn't it a bit unreasonable? The DMCA has pretty much destroyed fair use.

napstersghost  
Date: December 12, 2005 @ 6:40 PM
I get the feeling Raid is Mroop is disguise. They say exactly the same rhetoric.

RaidHHI  
Date: December 12, 2005 @ 6:42 PM
Otaku,

Why doesn't it make sense to you? I don't have to agree with the law to break it do I?

I suppose the main difference, is I know it's illegal, I'm doing it on purpose anyway. I'm not trying to pretend either I didn't know, or because I bought the cds, I shouldn't be punished if I were caught; Much like the lady did.

I torrent all kinds of things, My group will rip anything. music, movies. We care not of the label affiliation. We've got a few independent ones too.

The DMCA didn't give the RIAA or anyone else expanded copyright powers. You do not need to break copyright for commercial gain to be sued and stopped for it. Whoever told you it was commercial only?

The copyright laws have always been clear: if you don't have permission regardless of whether or not it's for monetary or otherwise gain, your not supposed to do it, period.

The ONLY thing the dmca did which is newish, is make it illegal to reverse engineer any so called protection present on the media. It was a grey area before the DMCA, it only clarified it.

I don't know where you come up with the had to have commercial gain to get somebody for it... I'd suggest you have your source checked for the flu.

RaidHHI  
Date: December 12, 2005 @ 6:45 PM
napstersghost,

Are you really that stupid? I'm hardly anyone but who I have claimed to be since the beginning. MrOop can speak for himself. Simply because we both seem to know the laws I'm breaking, doesn't mean we are the same person. Matter of fact, Independent can check the logfiles and see for himself.

If this site has ignorant gobber shits like you doing the majority of the posting, it's no wonder your not making a dent.

Your detective work is a fuckin joke if you seriously think MrOop and I are the same person.

RaidHHI  
Date: December 12, 2005 @ 6:47 PM
In the mean time, for those who understand torrent technology and wish to use it, help yourself to some of our rips. If you played with limewire, napster, kazaa, etc. You'll be pleasantly surprised at the quality when it's done correctly.

captdunsel  
Date: December 12, 2005 @ 8:20 PM
hmmmm, spirited discourse again.

oh well, I'm bored and I've got 6 minutes to kill.

- I know sharing files is illegal. I've always been in favor of civil disobedience on this topic. I figure, screw 'em, they claim p2p is killing their business so let's do all we can to make it happen.

- I've always felt we should be supporting the people who are being sued. we should be tapping the p2p community and organizing and raising money and costing the riaa on the legal front. Not that I believe there is a chance of winning but because they don't want the public to see them as they are. bring all of it out in the open and let's see what happens.

- my problem with the whole issue is exactly as I stated above. why is it that copyright is more important than the meth lab down the street from me? why is it that they can spend millions of dollars prosecuting children but they can't do anything about the bodies that get dumped in the back of the grocery store 8 blocks from here. why is it they can spend millions of dollars to train and arm cops and then when the shooting begins those same cops are busy serving warrants for the riaa?

- if they feel that kids listening to their music is such a crime then take it off the damn radio.

that's what my problem is.

captdunsel  
Date: December 12, 2005 @ 8:24 PM
and by the way raid --- ren and stimpy RULEZ

RaidHHI  
Date: December 12, 2005 @ 9:41 PM
hehehe... Enjoy. :)

TrueAudio  
Date: December 12, 2005 @ 9:47 PM
"I'm not preaching anything to do with the RIAA. the RIAA doesn't make the copyright laws. They are just enforcing the copyrights they own, like I could, like anyone who owns a copyright could."

I'll tell you one thing I have a problem with. Since when can a primarily foreign entity come crying to U.S. Federal law enforcement like the FBI and twist their arm to get them to fight their battles for them?

I saw a congressional interview several months ago on CSPAN where Senators were questioning the deputy director of the FBI; Robert Mueller, about the FBI's current law enforcement endeavors.

I heard all kinds of bullshit suggestions that the FBI didn't have enough people for various types of investigations and that they weren't doing enough to "protect" the U.S. from so-called "terrorism" (govt. sponsored as far as I'm concerned, but thats another topic).

NOT ONCE did I see one fucking word mentioned about the FBI having jumped on the bandwagon to fight so-called piracy.

I HAVE A FUCKING PROBLEM WHEN MY U.S. TAX PAYER DOLLARS ARE BEING USED TO FUCKING RAID COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES FOR MP3'S LIKE ARIZONA STATE UNIVERSITY, UNLV AND THE COMMUNITY COLLEGE OF SOUTHERN NEVADA WHEN THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO BE "PROTECTING THIS COUNTRY".

This along with "Operation Fastlink" when John Asscroft was AG that cost how much???

And now, those who still buy RIAA music are ALL viewed as "thieves" because the FBI has that stupid as hell AP warning message on CD's starting when the RIAA began their extortion lawsuits.

The RIAA has spent more money in the last 5 years on propaganda, hiring multitudes of companies to try to engineer unbreakable DRM, lobbying our fucking congressmen. They should have left well enough alone, and they'd be billions (at least hundreds of millions) of dollars richer today, IMO.

Lobbying should be a crime punishable by death.





napstersghost  
Date: December 12, 2005 @ 9:55 PM
Cry me a river, Raid. :-)

gfmlcka  
Date: December 12, 2005 @ 9:57 PM
"the RIAA doesn't make the copyright laws."

Ha!
They just write them and pay for them.

Visit opensecrets.org and research entertainment co. contributions.

Raid, you're really clueless sometimes. And not just about contractions.

gdZiemann  
Date: December 12, 2005 @ 10:46 PM
"1. Your boycott isn't significant enough to even register on the radar."

"The complaint of the major labels is very real. Their business is evaporating. Last week's sales were off 12.9% from the comparable week in 2004. This on top of sales decreases for the past half decade. Which now seem to be ACCELERATING!"

gdZiemann  
Date: December 12, 2005 @ 10:47 PM
The murder victim had nothing to do with piracy. He was just unfortunate enough to walk by an off-duty cop working for the RIAA.

mroop  
Date: December 12, 2005 @ 11:02 PM
"It wasn't until the RIAA twisted the copyright laws with the fucking DMCA did the RIAA have the right to go after file sharers who were NOT PROFITING OFF SOMEONE ELSE'S WORK."

Hey dude:

YOU HAVE NO CLUE WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT. YOU ARE 100 PERCENT WRONG.

mroop  
Date: December 12, 2005 @ 11:04 PM
"Originally, copyright infringement had to have a monetary gain or commercial intent to receive statutory damages."

Hey dude again:

YOU ARE WRONG. STOP THE INSANITY.

mroop  
Date: December 12, 2005 @ 11:08 PM
"I get the feeling Raid is Mroop is disguise. They say exactly the same rhetoric."

Jeebus. If anyone is guilty of rhetoric around here it is you brainwashed morons who never know what they hell you are talking about. Thanks for your time.

TrueAudio  
Date: December 13, 2005 @ 12:09 AM
Slightly off-topic, but I like dthis one:

"The MPAA is working aggressively to root out piracy in all corners of the globe so that unfortunate events driven by this illegal activity are halted and the public is made safer."
--------------------------------------------- --
"Was there ever a more twisted statement than the one above? The public is made safer? It begs the questioner to follow that with "from who"? Prehaps we ought to ask the dead grandmothers, the 13 adn 14 year old childern, the mothers of those childern, and the grandparents just who is protecting who.

Using financial terrorism against family members, statutory damages whose penalities were designed to be used against those selling goods as the penalty against individuals not making a dime doesn't really fit does it? This has had to be stretched so far for justification that minor profits such as a site that hosts an ad to help support it and will in no way actually carry the full burden of financial support of the site is considered as the justification of making profit. That's a bit out of whack in my book and should be in yours too. It's like saying you picked up a penny on the sidewalk and are arrested for not paying rent on the sidewalk to the city fathers.

The justifications are really having to be stretched to even manufacture a reason that sounds anywhere near plausable and when it is looked at closer, it vanishes as a sound reason.

No wonder I have a problem with buying goods from the cartels, laced with spyware and rootkits, spying on the buyer as part of the package, and doing invisable damage to security in a world where security is of prime importance. What a bargain for the customer..."

http://p2pnet.net/index.php?page=comment&stor y=7291&comment=26274

kyodylee  
Date: December 13, 2005 @ 1:00 AM
OMG ... Otaku is that really you! Very long time no see. Soooooo good to see you here again. Welcome back! I hope to see you around here more often. :)

And Raid and mroopie back in the same thread too ... intelligent debate laced with just enough flamewar drama the way only boycott-riaa can do ... things are looking up around here. ;)

Now if only Code would come back ......

MajorTreat  
Date: December 13, 2005 @ 1:36 AM
RIAA I mean RaidHHI IS AN RIAA AGENT!
Ignore RaidHHI!


Mroopenis is an RIA agent

Ignore Mroopenis

Otaku-Of-Tom...  
Date: December 13, 2005 @ 1:44 AM
“Why doesn't it make sense to you? I don't have to agree with the law to break it do I?

I suppose the main difference, is I know it's illegal, I'm doing it on purpose anyway. I'm not trying to pretend either I didn't know, or because I bought the cds, I shouldn't be punished if I were caught; Much like the lady did.”

Oh, I see. You’re a criminal and proud of it. Good for you. As long as your target is other criminals like the RIAA I say more power to ya. Wipe each other out. And kudos for not hiding behind any self-serving altruistic motives. Just commit the crime and do the time.

Just one thing, if you get caught, I’m sure you’re not going to walk into court and say, “Okay, ya got me. Go on, trow da book at me.” Surely you will have some defense. What handy screwball technicality of a law will you pay your lawyer to get you off with?

I would think you’d be the one to ask about how to beat this thing. After all, who has more success getting around the law in America then real honest to goodness criminals?

Or do you think they will elect to not go after you, because it’s never any fun for the RIAA to go after people who already know they’re criminals? They just get such a big kick out of wiping away that sense of security some people insist on clinging to, due to some misguided belief that American laws are written to protect the welfare of the common people.

You probably would not be a good subject to help the RIAA make its point that all the common people have already been judged criminals, and thus they are not entitled to any justice or fair play. Justice and fair play are for those who can afford to bribe the judges and lobby the politicians.

You, being a self acknowledged criminal, are probably just being a proper citizen in the eyes of the RIAA. You know your place in the new order as the scum of the Earth and are setting a proper example for the rest of us who refuse to bow down to our new corporate overlords.

We’re all pre-convicted criminals. So we should just get used to the idea and break all the laws we want until we get caught. Then we should be happy to pay the price for our fun.

Gee, this new century is so much fun. Who needs to read 1984 or Brave New World? We have ringside seats to the actual events.

independentm...  
Date: December 13, 2005 @ 2:21 AM
I'm glad to see mroop and RaidHHI back.

...I think.

lol

"the RIAA doesn't make the copyright laws."

Yes, they do. Sony Bono Act, DMCA, etc. are all a direct result of RIAA/MPAA/BSA lobby pressure. Actual creators (whom copyright was originally supposed to protect) were hardly consulted on any of the copyright amendments of the past century.

MajorTreat  
Date: December 13, 2005 @ 2:27 AM
"I know it's illegal"

No it's not.

The DMCA is not a law and trying to enforce it is a crime.

Die with this RIAA/MPAA parasites!

Otaku-Of-Tom...  
Date: December 13, 2005 @ 2:50 AM
Hey, when are the book publishers going to go after those criminal gangs who run libraries? Think of all those books, CD's and videos being shared for free. Somebody must be losing a huge chunk of change there. No way that can be legal if all this other stuff is illegal.

Say, I’m an author. I own a literary copyright. Libraries all across America represent a substantial loss in profits to me. Does that give me the right to go after libraries and shut them down for copyright infringement, even if I can’t directly prove they ever shared any of my copyrighted works?

I mean, it seems like all I have to do is prove that, even though libraries have other potential uses, their primary function is copyright infringement. Wiz, bang, every library in America would be gone, including The Library Of Congress, which would kind of invalidate all copyrights in an instant. Lovely catch 22 there. The very institution that hands out the copyrights is guilty of massive infringement.

Sorry, I’m giving less scrupulous souls bad ideas, but does this sound familiar? Why should I expect anybody to buy my books if they can read them for free?

Oh, my God, I just remembered. When I was a kid I got Watership Down out of the library and read it without paying Richard Adams a royalty. Darn, he must be so pissed at me. Of course, during the course of my subsequent life I bought two or three copies of the book, but that’s irrelevant. I still committed a crime for which I deserve to be dragged into court, publicly degraded and fined within an inch of bankruptcy.

Egad, one of my elementary school teachers read Charlotte’s Web in it’s entirety to my whole class. That one reading represents 30 lost sales. Dear lord, how have authors managed to survive this rampant piracy all these centuries?

A question for the lawyers. Forgive my shoddy memory, but didn’t I read something in reference to the concept of the copyright law about the American people having a right to access to their own culture that was just as important to protect as the rights of the copyright holders? Somehow I think whatever that was got lost in the mix during revisions to the copyright law.

RaidHHI  
Date: December 13, 2005 @ 12:16 PM
Raid, you're really clueless sometimes. And not just about contractions.

*yawn*. Listen, the RIAA didn't exist when copyright came to be. The fact they exist now, and have paid alot of money to have the law altered does not, I repeat, does not change the fact it was already there.

Grammer errors side doesn't deter from my point. When you have to point out those for a comeback, your already losing. :)

It's been a long time coming. In the warez scenes, this wasn't news. You ran a serious risk anytime you packaged the material and/or released it. Hell, in some cases, you ran a risk acquiring the material in the first place. But since it wasn't music or movies, the mainstream users didn't know anything about it. P2P didn't exist then. So far tho, the RIAA is still small potatoes. Adobe, Microsoft, etc made more money suing us. :)


independentm...  
Date: December 13, 2005 @ 2:42 PM
RaidHHI, are you telling us that in your opinion that there is something "wrong" with the intended concept of what "copyright" was supposed to be???

ORIGINALLY, copyright was only a social bargain/agreement. SURE, there is no naturalistic law of "ownership" of an idea/thought in the same way there is over a physical object...

But, we are a SOCIETY. Do you think that it would be "ok" in your book to record someone's song, make a CD (or other product) of that song without the songwriter/performer's permission ... then, turn around and sell it???

If you believe that, you are JUST AS EVIL as the RIAA (but on the OPPOSITE side of the spectrum.)

...and, in most of our eyes, even though you are doing the completely "opposite" thing... you are actually in effect doing the SAME DAMN THING as they.

...ripping off the creator/artist.

gfmlcka  
Date: December 13, 2005 @ 5:10 PM
"Grammer" errors DO deter from "your" point.

They betray not only your inability to use the English language effectively but your reasoning skills as well.

If copyright law was enforced per the Constitution, 14 yrs + 14 yrs renewable, EVERYONE (except the RIAA/MPAA/Disney)
would be better off and there would actually be a public domain. And this site would not exist because there would be no need.

To claim that copyright law existed before the RIAA and to refuse to acknowledge the perversion of that law since is, in your parlance, redeculous.

gfmlcka  
Date: December 13, 2005 @ 5:16 PM
And TrueAudio I think you really have something there. Think of all the shit that would just go away if lobbying were illegal.

Unfortunately we live under the Golden Rule.
He who has the gold makes the rules.
So it goes.

Nice concept though :)

RaidHHI  
Date: December 13, 2005 @ 7:14 PM
"They betray not only your inability to use the English language effectively but your reasoning skills as well."

While your an amusing shit, your an offly boring one too.

I'm not here to debate english, especially when posted on a website.

If you still think for one fucking minute you or anyone else here can do anything about the RIAA/MPAA lawsuits, your outright fucking stupid.

The RIAA is going to stampede the other little lemmings who wanna play in court. That's a fact of life....

Regards, idiot.

Otaku-Of-Tom...  
Date: December 13, 2005 @ 10:33 PM
“The RIAA is going to stampede the other little lemmings who wanna play in court.”

Probably true. I don’t recommend going to court. I recommend settling. And while your settling, develop a really bad feeling every time you hear RIAA music. Then you will suffer no loss when you get an Ebay account and throw all your legitimately purchased RIAA music out on the market for people to buy without paying any royalties. If you have a really big collection you’ll not only make back the settlement, you’ll probably have plenty left over to go out celebrating. This will probably do more harm to RIAA sales than your piddly amount of file sharing ever did.

Furthermore, since you won’t be buying RIAA music anymore, as it reminds you of how you were humiliated and gives you a really bad feeling, it will be like getting a very substantial raise in your paycheck. Your quality of life will surely go up.

So yeah, the thing to do is settle . . . and then get even.

Ram it down the throats of the RIAA that every music fan sued represents a minimum of 50 lost sales per year for life, and hundreds of thousands of sales lost due to RIAA music ceasing to be prized and not being kept by bullied fans. Then go out and further piss them off by living a happier and healthier life without tainted RIAA music.

RaidHHI  
Date: December 14, 2005 @ 11:25 AM
"To claim that copyright law existed before the RIAA and to refuse to acknowledge the perversion of that law since is, in your parlance, redeculous."

I said the copyright law existed well before the RIAA. I didn't refuse to acknowledge anything, idiot.

The RIAA didn't pervert the law on their own, they had help. Your ignorance wishes to place the blame entirely on the RIAA, and as much as I dislike them, that's not fair, even for them. :)

I suppose what annoys me the most about the entire thing, is it wasn't until pundit little shits like you on the p2p bandwagon started getting sued before you gave a shit about copyrights. The rest of us have been fighting this losing battle for years, without your boycott this, boycott that websites. You ungrateful, whiny little shit you.

I'm not about to give up ALL riaa music, simply because they are enforcing their copyrights. I personally enjoy listening to Bob Seger, Bob Dylan, Janis Joplin, The Doors, and I'm not giving them up just because the riaa is finally going after individuals who seem to think it's perfectly okay to take music. If your going to play the game, expect to pay when you get caught. Be a man about it.

tainted riaa music, your painting a really broad picture here. Not all RIAA music sucks, anymore so then all independent music is any good; The majority of it -independent music seems to suck, however.


Otaku-Of-Tom...  
Date: December 14, 2005 @ 12:24 PM
“I personally enjoy listening to Bob Seger, Bob Dylan, Janis Joplin, The Doors . . . tainted riaa music, your painting a really broad picture here”

Listening to that music was fun when it was just music to make you feel good or something that you felt was made by the artist to make a statement against the powers that be on your behalf. Now that you have to think of it as something that corporations own and can persecute you for using, it’s original value is completely lost. Those artists aren’t standing with you against the man, they are the man. Thus that is the most tainted music of all.

Why didn’t you include Steppenwolf in that list? If there was a band like Steppenwolf today they’d probably have a song titled “God Damn The RIAA Man.”

RaidHHI  
Date: December 14, 2005 @ 4:51 PM
Steppenwolf is also a longtime favorite. And I don't care what political, religious, etc beliefs they have. I'm not concerned with any of that. I'm simply interested in listening to the music, end of story.

Anything outside the lyrics of the songs has no interest for me. Anymore so then software I've written should/shouldn't be avoided because of personal viewpoints I might have. If the software works, use it. :)

Otaku-Of-Tom...  
Date: December 14, 2005 @ 9:28 PM
I see, so "Power To The People" is just a song. That low rumble you hear is John Lennon turning over in his grave.

Why doesn't someone sing something like this to the RIAA?

"What gives you the right hey you
To stand there and tell me what to do
Tell me who gave you the power
To stop me from livin' like I do
Remember if you plan to stay
Those who give can take away
Don't bite the hand that feeds you"

~Steppenwolf

independentm...  
Date: December 15, 2005 @ 7:15 AM
"I personally enjoy listening to Bob Seger, Bob Dylan, Janis Joplin, The Doors, and I'm not giving them up just because the riaa is finally going after individuals who seem to think it's perfectly okay to take music."

I of course enjoy those guys too. Have many of their albums. Still listen to them too! Never said there wasn't "good" RIAA controled music.

Get it thru your skull that we are NOT against the artists or the music itself. We are against the evils of the RIAA and the Content Cartel! It has gotten so bad that we MUST do something. So, we BOYCOTT. The RIAA slaves certainly CAN have us buying their recordings again IF they drop the major label crutch.

'nuff said. It's that simple. Stay with the RIAA and Boycott-Riaa will NOT support you.

RaidHHI  
Date: December 15, 2005 @ 5:24 PM
"Get it thru your skull that we are NOT against the artists or the music itself. We are against the evils of the RIAA and the Content Cartel! It has gotten so bad that we MUST do something. So, we BOYCOTT. The RIAA slaves certainly CAN have us buying their recordings again IF they drop the major label crutch."

That's rich. Really. I have no problem with your boycott, for what little impact it's obviously had. The problem I have is the assinine suggestion that people should avoid all RIAA music, that all RIAA music sucks. That's hardly the case. Many new RIAA acts suck, but even so, it's a matter of personal opinion.

"'nuff said. It's that simple. Stay with the RIAA and Boycott-Riaa will NOT support you."

How many fucking times do I have to say it? I am NOT with the RIAA. I have NOTHING TO DO WITH THE RIAA. I'm with a ripping group, and we are impartial to label affiliation.


gfmlcka  
Date: December 18, 2005 @ 7:37 AM
And good luck with that next resume!
idiot.

gfmlcka  
Date: December 18, 2005 @ 7:47 AM
"I'm not giving them up just because the riaa is finally going after individuals who seem to think it's perfectly okay to take music."

I haven't TAKEN anything. I've COPIED something, in this case ones and zeros.

Take your confusion about theft and infringement and go to hell with the rest of the scumbags. Take your delusions about what copyright law was intended to protect
and then read the Constitution.

Then write another virus and get caught.

Idiot.

RaidHHI  
Date: December 21, 2005 @ 2:04 PM
gfmlcka,

"And good luck with that next resume!
idiot."

Your a fine example of the dumbass end-users I have to deal with on a daily basis. You seem to think because I choose not to be grammatically correct here that I'm some kind of idiot do you?

Let me ask you something, genius, Do you code at all? Are you able to replace mosfet transistors? Can you actually repair a "dead" tv/monitor? Do you even know wtf a flyback coil is?

Those were rhetorical questions. But to answer your half-arsed attempt at an insult, that does look good on a resume when you want a "real" job. :)

"I haven't TAKEN anything. I've COPIED something, in this case ones and zeros."

Did you have permission to copy it? No? Then you broke the law, moron.

"Take your confusion about theft and infringement and go to hell with the rest of the scumbags. Take your delusions about what copyright law was intended to protect
and then read the Constitution."

I'm likely more familiar with the Constitution then your ignorant ass. I've played on both sides of the fence while some pundit little shits like you jerk off to your favorite p2p application, you snot nosed whiny little prick.

I know what copyright laws are, from both sides. I'm a registered copyright owner, and I've commited a great number of copyright infringements. But unlike! your sorry ass, I know I've done it, I don't try to pretend otherwise. And I certainly don't cry to momma when the big bad riaa sues the shit out of some pundit little fuckhead who gets caught, either.

"Then write another virus and get caught."

Does your stupid ass know what it means to be retired? Can't you read boy? I'm retired, as in Ex Virus Writer. Christ, IRoK will be 6 years old in a few months.

Infringement isn't theft, but it is indeed still infringement, and whether your sorry ass likes it or not, your not entitled to copy something without the creator/owners permission. If you do, then you break the law. Simple as that.

As for your going to hell comment, You first, punkass end-user.

This site is turning sorrier by the day...




gfmlcka  
Date: December 26, 2005 @ 2:11 AM
"Let me ask you something, genius, Do you code at all? Are you able to replace mosfet transistors? Can you actually repair a "dead" tv/monitor? Do you even know wtf a flyback coil is?"

Yes, 8086 assembler and up.
Yes, and it's MOSFET. Don't zap the gate.
Yes, but it depend on the problem.
Yes, it provides both deflection and HV inductance.

"'m likely more familiar with the Constitution then your ignorant ass. I've played on both sides of the fence while some pundit little shits like you jerk off to your favorite p2p application, you snot nosed whiny little prick."

Unlikely you have even read USC 17.

"Does your stupid ass know what it means to be retired? Can't you read boy? I'm retired, as in Ex Virus Writer. Christ, IRoK will be 6 years old in a few months."

I am retired.
And tired of cleaning up systems fucked up by assholes like you.

"Infringement isn't theft, but it is indeed still infringement, and whether your sorry ass likes it or not, your not entitled to copy something without the creator/owners permission. If you do, then you break the law. Simple as that."

Listen jerkoff, some laws are unjust and deserve to be broken. Explain how simple that is to Rosa Parks or Ghandi.

"Did you have permission to copy it? No? Then you broke the law, moron."

Idiot.


gfmlcka  
Date: December 26, 2005 @ 2:23 AM
btw rhhi, I was the first to crash the supposedly uncrashable DG Eclipse mini computer from a user terminal back in 1982.

10 do 30 for x = 1 to 1000
20 FSEEK(RND(x))
30 loop

compile and run that punkass.

gfmlcka  
Date: December 26, 2005 @ 2:56 AM
hey genius, explain phase margin, dolt.

RaidHHI  
Date: December 28, 2005 @ 4:35 PM
gfmlcka,

"Yes, 8086 assembler and up.
Yes, and it's MOSFET. Don't zap the gate.
Yes, but it depend on the problem.
Yes, it provides both deflection and HV inductance."

Woot.. 8086 assembler and up. Upto what? 386+? :)

It depend on the problem? Either you can, or you cannot fix it. If you say it depends on the problem, then you aren't actually qualified to fix them. Don't try bsing me in the future, thanks.

Very good, it provides high voltage... How brilliant of you. :)

"I am retired.
And tired of cleaning up systems fucked up by assholes like you."

you do realize, playing with computers in a retired state does tend to make you get left behind as the technology software/hardware only gets more complex. Btw, I didn't fuckup any systems to my knowledge, but thanks once again for making an ass of yourself here on this wonderfully fucking amusing website. Don't even try claiming my work fucked anything up, halfbreed.

"Listen jerkoff, some laws are unjust and deserve to be broken. Explain how simple that is to Rosa Parks or Ghandi."

So you support civil disobedience then? Whats the problem you have with me then? I run a ripping group, we do this every single day. Either you support what we do, or you don't.. So which is it?

"btw rhhi, I was the first to crash the supposedly uncrashable DG Eclipse mini computer from a user terminal back in 1982."

First of all, nobody in their right mind would say anything is uncrashable. An old saying comes to mind, the more crash proof you make the app, the better the idiot who comes along and breaks it. Nothing is uncrashable... Anyone who makes such a claim is a bigger idiot then yourself.

"10 do 30 for x = 1 to 1000
20 FSEEK(RND(x))
30 loop
"

Whats to compile dude? It's line basic, I think you meant interpreter. *grin*
especially considering it's.. circa 1982 code, I would say it's probably run thru an interpreter.. I doubt you'd compile it. I could be wrong, but I just can't be bothered to look it up.. Line basic, hahahaha.. My fuckin god.

What you've responded with doesn't take away the simple fact of the laws as we have them on the books today. I don't agree with them anymore then yourself, but I don't normally try to start shit with people who actually agree with me, either. You on the other hand... lol... shortsighted, retired dumbshit... lol... My god....

Okay, more coffee...





gfmlcka  
Date: December 29, 2005 @ 4:25 AM
"Woot.. 8086 assembler and up. Upto what? 386+? :)"

Managing programmers.

"It depend on the problem? Either you can, or you cannot fix it. If you say it depends on the problem, then you aren't actually qualified to fix them. Don't try bsing me in the future, thanks."

If YOU can instantaneously determine whether or not you can solve a given problem then you must be God. I am completely qualified to solve many problems but it takes time. Don't try BSing ME with such bullshit as knowing how long a problem will take to solve or you would not be wasting your time here.

"you do realize, playing with computers in a retired state does tend to make you get left behind as the technology software/hardware only gets more complex. Btw, I didn't fuckup any systems to my knowledge, but thanks once again for making an ass of yourself here on this wonderfully fucking amusing website. Don't even try claiming my work fucked anything up, halfbreed."

as far as computers you've fucked up, I'll have to check. nice trail.

"So you support civil disobedience then? Whats the problem you have with me then? I run a ripping group, we do this every single day. Either you support what we do, or you don't.. So which is it?"

Yes, I do.
The only problem I have with you is that you come off as a pompous jerk sometimes.


"btw rhhi, I was the first to crash the supposedly uncrashable DG Eclipse mini computer from a user terminal back in 1982."

"First of all, nobody in their right mind would say anything is uncrashable. An old saying comes to mind, the more crash proof you make the app, the better the idiot who comes along and breaks it. Nothing is uncrashable... Anyone who makes such a claim is a bigger idiot then yourself."

Actually that was the exact legal language that DG and (3 letter univ.) entered into.
If you think that 1982 minicomputer salesman didn't promote this than you are a fool.

"Whats to compile dude? It's line basic, I think you meant interpreter. *grin*
especially considering it's.. circa 1982 code, I would say it's probably run thru an interpreter.. I doubt you'd compile it. I could be wrong, but I just can't be bothered to look it up.. Line basic, hahahaha.. My fuckin god."

No, its Fortran77 running under DG Eclipse.
And if you compiled it and ran it, it hosed the entire network. You have no fucking clue.

"What you've responded with doesn't take away the simple fact of the laws as we have them on the books today. I don't agree with them anymore then yourself, but I don't normally try to start shit with people who actually agree with me, either."

I don't normally start shit, I react to it though. And in many cases I do agree with you. But.

Statements like :

"You on the other hand... lol... shortsighted, retired dumbshit... lol... My god....

Okay, more coffee..."

Make me think, fine, Dumbass, have some more coffee.

Put flyback in my face?
You couldn't explain phase margin with a month on Google because you don't know how the fuck electronics, which you depend on so dearly, work in any shape or form.

And to confuse basic with fortran, thats FUNNY.





RaidHHI  
Date: December 30, 2005 @ 5:45 PM
Sorry,

It looks like line basic to me. I haven't seen fortran in a very very long time.

"Put flyback in my face?

Hmm.. put flyback in your face.. No, I asked, you answered...

You couldn't explain phase margin with a month on Google because you don't know how the fuck electronics, which you depend on so dearly, work in any shape or form."

Now that IS funny. Do you mind if I share this with some friends of mine at a local tv shop where I do side work? they'd love to see this. For someone who doesn't know electronics work in any way shape or form, they'd love to know how I manage to fix tv's without getting electrocuted. *grin*

"If YOU can instantaneously determine whether or not you can solve a given problem then you must be God. I am completely qualified to solve many problems but it takes time. Don't try BSing ME with such bullshit as knowing how long a problem will take to solve or you would not be wasting your time here."

Wowa.. Hang on a second here chum... I didn't say you could instantly determine the problem.. Doh, I said you either could fix it or you couldn't. Who said anything about how long it would take to diagnose and/or fix? Sorry if I confused you with my question...or wasn't clear on what I was asking I suppose.. otherwise, I have no clue how this misunderstanding arrived.

"The only problem I have with you is that you come off as a pompous jerk sometimes."

Damnit.. You got me here. I get it honest tho. :)


RaidHHI  
Date: December 30, 2005 @ 5:49 PM
"as far as computers you've fucked up, I'll have to check. nice trail."

Hahaha... right, how in the hell did I miss this. :) Cheap Jab! Har har...

:)

RaidHHI  
Date: December 30, 2005 @ 5:51 PM
"Yes, I do."

What are you waiting for then? www.mininova.org search "hhi" Join me in some civil disobedience... Have requests for things you'd like to see offered? Always listening.. :)