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RaidHHI
|
Date: February 14, 2006 @ 10:42 AM
The term rootkit doesn't really apply.. but whatever. Since when are you concerned with technical things? :)
The program is easy enough to remove for anyone but a newbie...
|
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independentm...
|
Date: February 14, 2006 @ 11:05 AM
RaidHHI, that is NOT so. And you SHOULD damn well know it!
Please get off your elite high-horse once in a while. Even I wouldn't know how to easily "get-rid" of the infection Sony and Emi have been spreading.
(The only thing I know to do is to simply not buy the RIAA product in the first place.)
If you are so damn computer literate and smart, why don't you join our team instead of being such a pain.
(RaidHHI, we are looking for some volunteer web-techies to help the Boycott-Riaa website do a possible MAJOR overhaul/redesign. You got any skills you wish to lend?)
Send an e-mail to leflaw@dmusic.com or call him at 888-766-2690 if you wish to HELP the overall effort/agenda instead of "nit-pick" at us.
=============
BTW folks,
ANYONE who has such skills and/or desires to help us is WELCOME to contact leflaw in this regard. |
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gfmlcka
|
Date: February 14, 2006 @ 11:17 AM
Halderman and Felten have published their paper on Sony here :
http://itpolicy.princeton.edu/pub/sonydrm-ext.pdf
(pdf) |
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independentm...
|
Date: February 14, 2006 @ 11:26 AM
gfmlcka, THANKS!
(Could you take the time to do a copy and paste (or find) the plain-text of that for us?) |
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leflaw
|
Date: February 14, 2006 @ 11:28 AM
EMI. |
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independentm...
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Date: February 14, 2006 @ 11:29 AM
I'm a dumbass, I can sometimes get my 'puter to READ a .pdf file, but I am never able to post it in plain-text.
(I personally hate .pdf files... they smell to "DRMish" in flavor.) |
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independentm...
|
Date: February 14, 2006 @ 11:40 AM
Folks, the term "rootkit" may or may not technically apply, but it IS a "buzz-word" and/or "catchphrase" for the DRM infection issue we are talking about. (Most of us, self included, are only laymen to the issue.)
The PUBLIC is getting fu*ked over by the abusive DRM.
All I am asking is that if you feel you are a victim,
PLEASE, call or contact leflaw!
(His little 3-letter quip above means that I should steer this thread back on-topic instead of getting off on one of my rants.)
lol
If you bought an EMI disc lately, (one with the "copyprotection" that IMHO is nothing more than a virus)
CONTACT US! |
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independentm...
|
Date: February 14, 2006 @ 11:43 AM
(Folks, you may notice that I refuse to call ANY DRM infected disc a "CD" ...they are NOT true Compact Discs!)
(Look up the "red-book" standard on what a TRUE compact disc is! Executable files are NOT in that definition!) |
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gfmlcka
|
Date: February 14, 2006 @ 12:34 PM
I used the convert to plain text function of Adobe reader but it wasn't pretty.
Anyone having problems with .pdf files can go here :
http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep2.html
for a free version.
I've never had a problem with pdf's Mike and don't get your DRM feeling.
It is after all a Portable Document Format and has been in use for decades. |
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gfmlcka
|
Date: February 14, 2006 @ 12:43 PM
and speaking of rootkit technology
Sony-BMG has DONE IT AGAIN, this time on DVD :
http://www.f-secure.com/weblog/archives/archive-022006.html#00000810
Why won't they learn? |
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independentm...
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Date: February 14, 2006 @ 12:48 PM
.pdf encriptions/copyright protections do the same thing to text that DRM does to audio and video in my book.
To me it is the same damn thing.
(But folks, please educate me if I am wrong in my observation/assumption!) |
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independentm...
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Date: February 14, 2006 @ 12:49 PM
Thanks for that link tho gfmlcka! |
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RaidHHI
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Date: February 14, 2006 @ 2:45 PM
Actually....
The copy protected cds sony released are redbook cds... They also contain a data track, but the cd itself doesn't have any limitations whatsoever with regard to the redbook audio.
It's a multi session cd.. nothing special. The only thing which makes it interesting is the data track and the autorun.inf which enables it to install the drm software which hides itself. I don't call it a rootkit, because it's not. Nice buzzword, but not appropriate.
"RaidHHI, that is NOT so. And you SHOULD damn well know it!"
We've had this discussion on alt.comp.virus. The software drm sony installs IS easy to remove. Two registry keys, one folder and some files and your done.
I've seen more complicated spyware installations.
Please get off your elite high-horse once in a while. Even I wouldn't know how to easily "get-rid" of the infection Sony and Emi have been spreading.
You don't know how to do html, did I say I thought you knew how to deal with memory resident executables?
The drm program isn't complex, and it is easy to remove. I've already discussed this at length on usenet, and many agree with me. I suppose we're all elite eh?
Do you have any firsthand experience with the rootkit? I do, I deliberately installed it on a vmware box... It's piss easy to remove.
Oh.. I didn't mention what it is I do for a living did I? I'm a technican, certified technician with a hard background in electronics. I also have 15 years or so programming professionally... heheh, not to mention the quality hacking skills.
I'm not an end user like you apparently are, and I do call em as I see em. The drm program isn't complex, it's not magic.
(The only thing I know to do is to simply not buy the RIAA product in the first place.)"
|
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RaidHHI
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Date: February 14, 2006 @ 2:49 PM
Nice link, it's another form of a multisession autorun disc. If you don't have autorun enabled, you run ZERO risk, that's right, NO RISK whatsoever of encountering the little shit on the dvd, or the ones on the foo fighters double cd....
I'm really not trying to have an elitest attitude with you or anyone else, but when you come at me with sheer stupidity, I don't have much choice.
|
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PenisBrain
|
Date: February 14, 2006 @ 2:51 PM
"RaidHHI, we are looking for some volunteer web-techies to help the Boycott-Riaa website do a possible MAJOR overhaul/redesign. You got any skills you wish to lend?"
Yeah I agree with that. It's time to come together, lend our expertise and do what's good for the common cause. So lets put our “egos” in check. It’s going to take some kind of coalition, everyone with different agendas working together…We all agree in some form or fashion that the RIAA and it’s media bosses are bad…Let’s try to think up something for a better world….Grassroots opposition has to start somewhere…Maybe in a way we’re the Solidarity movement of our day against an evil empire. Instead of beer halls, it’s blog sites. Anything can happen if the voice of dissidence become organized in a fashion that will make the media take notice…History is on our side because it’s happened before! It all can start from one voice.
If we want to make a difference at all, think of this site as ground zero. |
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captdunsel
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Date: February 14, 2006 @ 3:19 PM
don't know about sony or emi but I still have the hard drive that symantec fucked with their rootkit. It wasn't simple to uninstall and by the time it was over with I had learned 2 valuable lessons
norton sucks butt loaf
never pay for a "license" to use a product |
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leflaw
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Date: February 14, 2006 @ 3:19 PM
Facts
1. Most people have autorun and auto insert notification on, not off. Most manufacturers default to on.
2. I am on the litigation team with EFF, and one of my clients is the one of the lead plaintiffs. We have expert reports on this stuff. The Sony Drm is insidious and tough to remove for the consumer, according to our experts. Thats spelled C-O-N-S-U-M-E-R, as in "Consumer Class actions".
|
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RaidHHI
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Date: February 14, 2006 @ 3:50 PM
"1. Most people have autorun and auto insert notification on, not off. Most manufacturers default to on."
Fact.
1. This is considered a serious security risk, and several security related sites have suggested turning autorun off for a years now.
2. The sony software is hardly insidious. It has limited stealth capability, but nothing overtly complicated. It's easy to avoid, and easy to remove if your willing to spend a little time on it.
3. Computers are not toys. If a drm program is complicated for you, I'm sure you can find some online education courses.
4. I'm one of the fellows in charge of malware removal, spyware removal and general security here. I've also got expert reports on this software, and none consider it especially difficult to remove. Sneaky, but not difficult to remove, no.
5. Various cdrom burning packages if damaged and/or uninstalled can also render your cdrom/dvd drives unavailable; This drm business isn't the first that's done this, and it won't be the last. The registry fix which applies to botched cdburning applications also applies to the removal of the sony drm program.
6. When speaking of consumers, are we speaking of the ones which specifically have to be told on the box of a cell phone not to insert it anally?
|
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RaidHHI
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Date: February 14, 2006 @ 3:51 PM
captdunsel,
"
Date: February 14, 2006 @ 3:19 PM
don't know about sony or emi but I still have the hard drive that symantec fucked with their rootkit. It wasn't simple to uninstall and by the time it was over with I had learned 2 valuable lessons"
Enlighten me.. How exactly did symantec fuck your hard drive?
|
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independentm...
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Date: February 14, 2006 @ 4:58 PM
FRICKING DOUBLE DAMN DAMNIT Raid!!!
Get OFF your "holier than thou" pedistle...
We KNOW you are MORE than "computer literate" and a "programer" and all that jazz...
Boycott-Riaa forums are NOT intended as "geeky tech forums"
...hell, we don't even aspire to be "slash/dot" -ish...
STOP with your BROW-BEATING of those who are less "tech-competent" than you.
...sh*t, don't you even understand that YOU have a GIFT about these kinda things that should be shared (or at least, used) by you in a way that BENEFITS the "stupid people/sheep" INSTEAD of BROW-BEATING us with it???
Damnit RaidHHI, be a TEACHER and HELPER of the "little-people" who don't quite understand. (LOTR example: Gandalf)
Don't be a sneering FOE. (LOTR example: Saruman)
======= |
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Distilled1
|
Date: February 14, 2006 @ 5:20 PM
I have my autorun turned off only because I have issues with the RCT3 game autorun and it have a bug!
RaidHHI damn right help us less than IT savey, and wanabee hackers out show us some stuff, teach so we can all learn and know. |
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leflaw
|
Date: February 14, 2006 @ 5:52 PM
REPEAT:
CONSUMER PROTECTION LAWS PROTECT YOUR AVERAGE CONSUMER. ONLY AN IDIOT WOULD ARGUE THAT AN AVERAGE CONSUMER OUGHT TO ME ABLE TO REMOVE MALWARE.
Move on. Your wasting our time. We have paid experts with real resumes, real experience and verified ID's who are advising on this.
Computers are not toys? since when? Reader Rabbit 1.0 ?
RAID,
Go tell the EFF. I am sure they would love to hear about your social theories. |
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leflaw
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Date: February 14, 2006 @ 5:54 PM
Computers have become less than toys. They have become a recycling problem. |
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RaidHHI
|
Date: February 14, 2006 @ 10:13 PM
leflaw,
"Move on. Your wasting our time. We have paid experts with real resumes, real experience and verified ID's who are advising on this."
I find that quiet amusing. Listen, I'm not going to do into boring details about my resume, real experience, etc. Your too quick to forget, I used to write what some may consider to be malware... I have extensive real world experience programming the shit, and removing it.
But that's a moot point. I don't really give a shit how complex your experts are telling you it is, It's far from a complex program. And if you really are paying people to tell you that, your a fucking idiot, with all due respect. I seriously suggest you discuss that so called rootkit with more competent fellows if thats really the case.
|
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RaidHHI
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Date: February 14, 2006 @ 10:14 PM
"Computers are not toys? since when? Reader Rabbit 1.0 ?"
Computers are toys to you? Lans and Wans, massive networks are toys to you are they?
|
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RaidHHI
|
Date: February 14, 2006 @ 10:16 PM
"Go tell the EFF. I am sure they would love to hear about your social theories."
Why don't you read some articles on slashdot regarding it. The program they installed is annoying, but that's about it as far as removal difficulty is concerned. While resident the original version does make an effort to hide, that could be a problem for some users.. But shouldn't be a problem for anyone else.
|
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captdunsel
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Date: February 14, 2006 @ 10:23 PM
well raid, it worked like this
I had norton systemworks 2003 installed on my machines (winblows 2000) desktop and laptop.
I had a hard drive crash on my laptop (same system). I got a new drive from IBM and went to install all the programs back on the machine when I noticed my subscription to norton antivirus was expiring in about a month. I installed norton on my lap top with no problems but when I went to update my desk top norton said I had to uninstall the old version first.
this cannot be done.
even if you are using the install disk to uninstall the program as norton recommends you cannot remove the root kit (especially if you don't know it is there) when I then tried to install the new version of norton it wiped out a substantial portion of my OS and when I tried to reboot, it flashed a skull and crossbones across my screen and the machine started laughing like satan.
all in all it was a great joke. I can look back on it now and say " hey that was pretty funny.
I guess technically the drive isn't really hurt, I could reformat it but I have saved it just in case someone ever sues symantec and they need somebody to show them a drive that their crap ware has screwed up.
maybe if I was a little more technically oriented I could be more descriptive but that should clarify |
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leflaw
|
Date: February 14, 2006 @ 10:25 PM
Listen Raid.
You suffer from a disease called solipcism. You are out of your element here. Federal Rules require paid experts. I know that you are pissed that you won't see a dime since you are such a wonderful genious without any social skills.
Eff hired them. I think they also consulted with Ed Felton. I am going to put you in touch them. And then you can embarrass yourself to a much wider audience.
I am going to point out everything you said - that normal people should be ashamed to have to admit that they are not as computer literate as you, and SONYBMG is the Mother Theresa of companies. And that the EFF position is idiotic.
Get a life. Nobody will listen to you if you don't.
I will wait until 12:00 EST to contact them. Then its up to you. I will honestly report their reaction to your theory on Dmusic, Boycott-RIAA and Gnutella.com
You talk the talk. Now lets see you walk the walk. |
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captdunsel
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Date: February 14, 2006 @ 10:27 PM
oh, sorry. I didn't know you guys were still arguing. I'll go away now. |
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RaidHHI
|
Date: February 14, 2006 @ 10:30 PM
"You suffer from a disease called solipcism. You are out of your element here. Federal Rules require paid experts. I know that you are pissed that you won't see a dime since you are such a wonderful genious without any social skills."
*yawn* Do you really think I'd be interested in collecting money for killing that pos drm program?
Money doesn't motivate me.
"Eff hired them. I think they also consulted with Ed Felton. I am going to put you in touch them. And then you can embarrass yourself to a much wider audience."
That's fine. I would direct you to usenet alt.comp.virus for the discussion we had concerning the sony rootkit.
http://forums.myispfinder.org/showthread.php?t=39912
Since you want to make such a big stink of it, lol, My name is Dustin Cook. I'll save you the trouble of having to ask.
The EFF might have already heard of me, Raid was an impressionable nick a few years ago.
Lets play leflaw. :)
|
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RaidHHI
|
Date: February 14, 2006 @ 10:33 PM
Specifically, forward this information quoted below to your experts. :)
First of all, the blabbering was a pretty straight forward way of
removing the offending software; The software cannot hide if you use
ultimate boot cd, knoppix, bartpe, etc. The reason it cant hide is
because your computer is operating from that cd's OS, not it's own.
Since it's own OS was never loaded, neither was the offensive software.
None of it.
Second, It doesn't infest anything. The method it uses is actually
pretty clean, and a design of windows. The software is malicious only
in the sense you don't know what it's actually upto; Probably aren't
warned it's installed, and it can be a slightly tedious task of
removing it. But it's harm to your system isn't. It reroutes your cdrom
access thru it's own drivers. CloneCD does this as well. If you
remove it's drivers, windows disables cdrom; It isn't going to load
just any drivers, if it cant load the ones the registry says to; no
cdrom.
To remove it is a matter of cleaning up the files, theirs really no
need to play cat and mouse with it if you don't boot the host OS.
bartpe is a nice time saver. Once the files are gone, you can run
regedit from bart and mount the software hive, remove the offending
keys, unmount the hive, and reboot to the host OS. Windows will reset
your cdrom access back to it's own default drivers. If you have burning
software, you may need to reinstall it to re-enable burning features.
That's what I was blabbering about.
Regards,
Dustin Cook
http://bughunter.atspace.org
|
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RaidHHI
|
Date: February 14, 2006 @ 10:36 PM
James Egan
Guest
Default Re: Caution SONY Music CDs have trojan Malware
On Fri, 4 Nov 2005 0743 -0500, "Sony Music CDs install Malware"
wrote:
Quote:
Dustin is Wrong 1. That's not 'easy' removal DustinThat's skilled removal by
someone who knows the system and registry very well as well as some of the
tools that are available.
Actually, he did say "aside from a general end user not knowing how to
boot from a cd such as a bart disc, or knowing how to use the registry
editor" before saying it was easy. With those qualifications, it *is*
easy.
Quote:
Dustin is Wrong 2. And it is an infestation if special tools are needed for
a removal.
You won't find many (if any) in acv agreeing with that definition of
malware "infestation".
Jim.
Mr Egan is a respected AV person. :)
hehehe... Come, dance in the fire with me leflaw.
|
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leflaw
|
Date: February 14, 2006 @ 10:38 PM
I don't care. I and millions of others don't have the time to fuck with root directories. We got lives and businesses to run. Jeesh!
I will do an address verification on you anyway. |
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leflaw
|
Date: February 14, 2006 @ 10:39 PM
And Sony settled already. |
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leflaw
|
Date: February 14, 2006 @ 10:40 PM
Let's play indeed.
User's account has been suspended pending email validation. |
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RaidHHI
|
Date: February 14, 2006 @ 10:42 PM
Seriously leflaw, a boot disc and a few minutes with the registry editor is all you need. And the registry editor fix would be required for bad uninstalls of roxio and nero as well. I have a little .vbs file that was based off the registry keys that automates that step. Once the executables are deleted and the folders removed, fixing the registry entries and rebooting is all thats required.
As I had originally stated before you wanted to play with me, The program isn't complex and it is easy to remove. If you don't know how to get a boot disk, google.com is your best friend.
I don't agree with sony's method of copyprotection and I have never said otherwise. I simply said the program is easy to remove.
I'm awaiting what your experts have to say :)
|
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leflaw
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Date: February 14, 2006 @ 10:45 PM
registry editor for a novice? You might as well have them do brain surgery. |
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RaidHHI
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Date: February 14, 2006 @ 10:46 PM
email verification? Do I seem like a fucking troll to you or something? I didn't forge my email when I signed up here... Sheesh
|
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RaidHHI
|
Date: February 14, 2006 @ 10:47 PM
registry editor isn't required anymore, as I already told you, a vbs script file; double click, reboot. Done, cdroms/dvd etc all back. reinstall your burning applications... Done.
Incidently, you'll have to reinstall your burning applications if you remove it anyway. It's a side effect of those keys.
|
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RaidHHI
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Date: February 14, 2006 @ 10:48 PM
Did you really pay people to tell you this is a complex program and it's difficult to remove or something?
For shame leflaw, for shame.
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RaidHHI
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Date: February 14, 2006 @ 10:51 PM
In fact, the registry keys is such a known issue with windows 2k, and xp, that microsoft has a walk thru for it. Even a novice could follow it....
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leflaw
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Date: February 14, 2006 @ 10:53 PM
No raid, we got 24 law firms together, filed 18 federal and state class actions in the US and Canada, and then hired somebody to tell us that it was no big deal, anybody should know that you either have to do a reg edit or a vbs script.
You need some sun and a woman. |
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captdunsel
|
Date: February 14, 2006 @ 10:53 PM
I dunno, I'm pretty much a novice but I have a fondness for regcleaner 4.1 (juoni viorio) great program. of course I'm still getting a chuckle out of that whole symantec thing.
ok I'm going away now |
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leflaw
|
Date: February 14, 2006 @ 10:54 PM
Next lesson:
The difference between forests and trees. |
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OldCodger
|
Date: February 14, 2006 @ 10:54 PM
Fact: Raid has significant technical experience, and his knowledge base is at a very high level. (Such is also true of RealAudio.)
Insight: If typical people who are primarily end-users acknowleged the value of his talent and tried to gain some programming skill, they'd be better off and also get along better with him.
|
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leflaw
|
Date: February 14, 2006 @ 10:57 PM
I could continue with satiric invective, but with this dolt, it feels like child molesting.
And I don't file consumer protection class actions to protect hackers or programmers.
The language here is English, not C++. You know English, Raid. Its like American, only with bad teeth. |
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R5D4
|
Date: February 14, 2006 @ 10:58 PM
>If typical people who are primarily >end-users acknowleged the value of his >talent and tried to gain some programming >skill, they'd be better off and also get along >better with him.
Or without him.
|
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leflaw
|
Date: February 14, 2006 @ 10:59 PM
captdunsel-
do you mean semantic or symantec? |
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leflaw
|
Date: February 14, 2006 @ 11:00 PM
Where is my huckleberry? Going to get his father? |
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captdunsel
|
Date: February 14, 2006 @ 11:01 PM
I was talking about symantec the company that puts out norton systemworks |
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leflaw
|
Date: February 14, 2006 @ 11:02 PM
And I don't give a shit about technical acomplishments. This guy has been baiting everybody for awhile. I have reviewed his threads, and other internet posts. Quite a dossier.
You can stay for the time being, but I will be watching you. Read the TOS. |
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leflaw
|
Date: February 14, 2006 @ 11:02 PM
R5D4
Right! |
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OldCodger
|
Date: February 14, 2006 @ 11:07 PM
Leflaw, "quite a dossier" is what I also should have said previously (but didn't). You're very astute with words.
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OldCodger
|
Date: February 14, 2006 @ 11:10 PM
Re: "satiric invective" — I like that phrase, leflaw.
P.S. I enjoy dry, poignant humor.
|
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OldCodger
|
Date: February 14, 2006 @ 11:16 PM
Incidentally, it's possible my remark about "also getting along better with him" was too subtle (and may have gone over most people's heads).
Oh, well; I think some of us got it. Probably those like me who enjoy dry humor.
|
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leflaw
|
Date: February 14, 2006 @ 11:16 PM
Thank you. I guess it got too hot in the kitchen, and he went into another thread.
I keep running into these computer types who think that knowledge of the higher level computer languages that sound like English make them lawyers.
We didn't have this problem back in the day of assembly language. They carried sliderules and pencil holders in their pockets so everybody knew to ignore them. |
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leflaw
|
Date: February 14, 2006 @ 11:18 PM
I have to admit, it was not totally unenjoyable for me, who also likes to play with his food a bit. :) |
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OldCodger
|
Date: February 14, 2006 @ 11:19 PM
P.S. I'm convinced that what this site needs is more comic relief, especially when the verbiage gets contentious.
|
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leflaw
|
Date: February 14, 2006 @ 11:22 PM
definitely |
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leflaw
|
Date: February 14, 2006 @ 11:26 PM
I wonder how I would do on Hannity and Combs.
or on Rush Limbaugh -
where I say in my Samuel. Jackson/pulp fiction voice:
"Rush, I know you think I am a liberal, but to prove you wrong, I brought this .44 magnum to put a cap in your ass.
|
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leflaw
|
Date: February 14, 2006 @ 11:27 PM
Actually I am a Chris Rock wannabe. |
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OldCodger
|
Date: February 14, 2006 @ 11:28 PM
LOL!! |
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OldCodger
|
Date: February 14, 2006 @ 11:32 PM
(I appreciate all kinds of humor. . . especially clever stuff I've never heard before . . . and what you wrote falls under that category!)
|
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leflaw
|
Date: February 14, 2006 @ 11:35 PM
You are right - we ought to have more comedy around here! Where's mroop?
Only kidding. |
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OldCodger
|
Date: February 14, 2006 @ 11:38 PM
That was a good one, too!
(You've got my eyes watering again; where's my dang tissues?)
|
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OldCodger
|
Date: February 14, 2006 @ 11:42 PM
Well, now that i've regained my composure, I've been wanting to say:
You've got a great website here, and we appreciate it.
It's a worthy endeavor that enlightens and provides a common ground of support for a good cause.
|
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leflaw
|
Date: February 14, 2006 @ 11:43 PM
I saw a funny Muslim joke the other day.
A woman walked by a dozen Taliban construction workers. One yelled out "Hey doll, show us your face!".
|
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leflaw
|
Date: February 14, 2006 @ 11:43 PM
groan :(
|
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leflaw
|
Date: February 14, 2006 @ 11:44 PM
I gotta go to bed.. or start another comedy thread!
Nite all! |
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OldCodger
|
Date: February 14, 2006 @ 11:45 PM
. . . the good cause of standing up for independent artists and standing up against the content cartel.
|
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OldCodger
|
Date: February 14, 2006 @ 11:49 PM
A "comedy thread" — now, that's a neat idea!
(And, hey, thanks for making us laugh. We needed that.)
|
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OldCodger
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 12:10 AM
Hmm...too bad, gdZiemann isn't participating on this thread tonight. (For those who don't know, George is really good at one-liners!) And, uh...oh, BTW, he just also happens to be very savvy about a lot of serious things.
I'll say it right now, and I don't care who thinks what:
Both leflaw and gdZiemann deserve praise for being remarkable assets to this website.
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leflaw
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 12:26 AM
get GZ over here! |
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OldCodger
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 12:42 AM
Yeah, then you could both take a bow and bid us all good evening.
(Okay, that may have come out a little corny, but my heart was in the right place!)
What also should be mentioned is all the folks behind the scenes who work hard to keep this site going as well as it does. (Leflaw is a fine leader who has a fine crew.)
And, of course, we don't want to leave out our moderator, Shmoo. He does a lot, too.
Well, I guess we can let the rest of the credits roll on by themselves. . .
:-) |
|
leflaw
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 12:52 AM
http://www.dmusic.com/forum/comedy/ |
|
leflaw
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 12:55 AM
...where you will find gems like..
"Henry Wadsworth Longfellow is a porno name if ever there was one."
Beautiful. |
|
PenisBrain
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 2:44 AM
Again I'd like to point out how sad it is that a site that's partly to help Indie artist has 70 something post with this nonsense and counting while the poor Arden Kaywin thread has zip....
Maybe sampling some music will soothe the savage beasts here! |
|
OldCodger
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 7:13 AM
Re: ". . . 70-something posts with this nonsense . . ."
Hey, for anyone hoping to find something utilitarian on this thread, at least there was useful information about how to dispose of rootkits or memory-resident executables on a computer....as well as how to prevent getting them in the first place.
(After all, "rootkits" was the topic.)
And, yeah, we did get derailed by what was perceived as a need for comic relief to offset tension over contention. How bad is that?
" . . . how sad it is that a site that's partly to help indie artists . . . the poor Arden Kaywin thread has zip posts."
Well, at least, threads about indies ARE often available.
And perhaps they're being read by a number of people without comment, so there is still that potential value as well.
This website provides ample opportunities for keeping up with the news and for posting comments; but, it would be unrealistic to hope to please everyone.
|
|
Dreddsnik
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 9:55 AM
I personally have been doing PC repairs
for about 10 yrs.
It is pretty simple .. for me.
I get a LOT of work locally, because for
the AVERAGE HOME USER, it is ...
A: not simple
B: they don't want to bother learning.
I use my mom as a "benchmark" for the
average home user < snicker > .
I love mom dearly, but she can only do
the minimum. She tries, she really,
really does, but just can't figure out
anything higher than basic point and
click. If she ever opened the registry
editor the universe would collapse ..
really. This IS the average joe
consumer.
This is also what keeps me in business.
Hundreds joe average computer users.
I wonder how many would continue to
call me if I went out of my way to make
them feel inferior/ashamed/stupid for
not having my incredible mind and
amazing skills ?
I am willing to bet that not only would
my calls dry up, but no one would listen
to anything I have to say, regardless of
my expertise. They would call me an
"arrogant prick". Sound familiar ?
It's really no different than a carpenter,
mechanic, or any other skilled tradesman.
It's easy for "Al" on the corner to fix my
car. I couldn't do it if my life depended
on it. Doesn't make me stupid.
So, really, I don't think anyone here
doubts your skills or .. heh, resume.
The humiliation tactics.
Attempts to demoralize members.
No real input.
Your motives, reason for being here are
what's in question. |
|
Dreddsnik
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 9:59 AM
Not knowing how to change my own oil ....
THAT makes me stupid. |
|
RaidHHI
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 10:06 AM
And I don't give a shit about technical acomplishments. This guy has been baiting everybody for awhile. I have reviewed his threads, and other internet posts. Quite a dossier.
I haven't been baiting anyone... I simply don't agree with some viewpoints here. You chose to make a big stink about the complexity of the program, and it's hardly complex. That doesn't mean I think highly of sony for doing it.
Regarding got scared off and went to other threads, not hardly. If your unwilling or unable to debate on the pure technical matters, that's fine with me. I've been a poster on your website for a number of years now, and my attitude hasn't changed in the slightest bit. I do not agree with the riaa's lawsuits against everyone, but I don't agree with many of your posters either.
I'm not here to patronize you, or pat you on the back. I wish to see what both sides are doing. The riaa and this side. I'm hardly neutral in it myself, but... I have chosen not to pick sides in this war.
I refuse to boycott the riaa simply because I like music, period. I like alot of music, and some of it is riaa. |
|
RaidHHI
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 10:09 AM
I also don't think it's a bad thing to have expert level knowledge with computers and programming. Anymore so then it's a bad thing to be an ase certified mechanic.
Knowledge is a useful thing. If people were generally more knowledgabe with regard to computers, Many of these lawsuits wouldn't have happened. Installing ip filtering programs goes an exceptionally long ways towards stopping this mess.
"No raid, we got 24 law firms together, filed 18 federal and state class actions in the US and Canada, and then hired somebody to tell us that it was no big deal, anybody should know that you either have to do a reg edit or a vbs script."
law firms who want the money will go after anybody if the price is right. Just look at the riaa.
"You need some sun and a woman."
Yes, and you need a life. Intelligence isn't a bad thing anymore. Are we feeling inferior today leflaw?
|
|
OldCodger
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 10:13 AM
My error:
Earlier I said "RealAudio" instead of "TrueAudio" (when I was referring to something about his and RaidHHI's expertise).
|
|
OldCodger
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 10:14 AM
. . . which, in fact, they both have.
|
|
RaidHHI
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 10:17 AM
OldCodger,
I'm glad to see that you don't seem to be offended by me. :) It's really not my intention to offend everyone with each post, but really. the outright ignorance displayed here on a day to day basis. "It's okay to download in the usa, just dont upload" (1) example.
Leflaw should be more concerned with bad advice then my posts.
And no, I have no alterior motives. I've been a user on your site for a couple of years or so now. My attitude has not changed.
|
|
RaidHHI
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 10:20 AM
" The humiliation tactics.
Attempts to demoralize members.
No real input."
Please. This isn't middle school. No humiliation effort is being made on my part. Some advice here is generally really bad in nature, and illegal. You disagree with my posts because I don't boycott the riaa, and I don't see things the way you do. You and many others have been caught up in this copyright mess that you don't know which way is up or down.
|
|
R5D4
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 10:27 AM
Actually. I don't think it's the not boycotting the RIAA thing. You really do come off as a know it all techno geek that doesn't have any friends.
|
|
R5D4
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 10:29 AM
and that's coming from someone that has 25 years in the computer field.
|
|
leflaw
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 10:31 AM
:)
|
|
leflaw
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 10:37 AM
No one cares if Raid boycotts the riaa.
BUT I WILL NOT BECOME A TECHNO GEEK JUST BECAUSE SOME COMPUTER DRONE WANTS TO re-engineer society.
Most people do not want to know whats' in their computer or how it works. Why should they? Its not necessary to use one.
And, secondly, I see know problem with a sole proprietor of a website throwing someone out just for being rude. You are cruising for a bruising. I am considering demanding an apology or throwing RAID out.
He has his principles ( whatever they are - its not clear), and I have mine.
And I have the power here, not him. Thats reality ( as oppsed to virtual realty).
And I am trained at debate and argument
|
|
leflaw
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 10:41 AM
... and history and philosophy and literature and law and... |
|
RaidHHI
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 10:42 AM
"Actually. I don't think it's the not boycotting the RIAA thing. You really do come off as a know it all techno geek that doesn't have any friends."
*yawn*
And, secondly, I see know problem with a sole proprietor of a website throwing someone out just for being rude. You are cruising for a bruising. I am considering demanding an apology or throwing RAID out.
An apology for what exactly leflaw?
"And I am trained at debate and argument"
Yes, it shows. *grin* Your doing a fine job so far!
hahheh...
"and that's coming from someone that has 25 years in the computer field."
No offense, but typing doesn't qualify. :)
|
|
RaidHHI
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 10:45 AM
Really leflaw, your such a fine debater that you have called me a pencil pushing geek, technogeek, etc etc etc. Schoolyard name calling and threats of account removal because you don't like the way I play.
Your an expert at debate man... Yea...
Your welcome to delete my account if you so desire, It would only serve my point further if you did so. You are no better than the lawyers who work for the riaa if that's how you solve debates. |
|
leflaw
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 10:47 AM
Thats an apology? You got 30 minutes, then it becomes a self fulfilling prophesy.
You are supposedly trained in logic. What will you do? |
|
RaidHHI
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 10:52 AM
Please, no need to threaten me with time limits, kiddo... Just delete the account if that's your desire. I'm not apologizing to you for anything I've said.
Perhaps if you feel the desire to apologize for some of your assinine comments, I'll consider it. But neither of us are going to end this that way, so delete the account then.
|
|
Dreddsnik
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 10:53 AM
"I also don't think it's a bad thing to have expert level knowledge with computers and programming. Anymore so then it's a bad thing to be an ase certified mechanic. "
Certainly.
But, that said, not everyone is or can be
skilled/knowledgable in the same things.
My mom, again ...
Math expert. I learned from her. Very
intelligent. A Good thing, right ?
She just can't get farther than the basics
on that computer. Basic HTML coding
would make her eyes bleed.
but , once again, intelligent .. not stupid.
This is the point that is being ingnored ..
"Most people do not want to know whats' in their computer or how it works. Why should they? Its not necessary to use one. "
This does not mean those people are
stupid, fear intelligence, hate smart
folk or anything like it.
"Are we feeling inferior today leflaw?
It is been painfully apparent for a long
time, that the opposite is true.
Why else would you find it so necessary,
Raid, to beat regular users over the
head with your vast knowledge of
life, the universe, and everything ?
I think THAT is why you keep coming back.
You'll make us listen, by god, yes you will.
I apologize in advance for not being
your intellectual equal . |
|
leflaw
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 10:56 AM
You may want to reconsider, Raid, before I zap you. People apologize here all the time. Its good for the soul.
And forgiveness is divine.
see?
http://www.dmusic.com/forum/general/21306#7
Alternatively, if you paid to subscribe...
Nah, bad idea. |
|
RaidHHI
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 11:04 AM
Dreddsnik,
" It is been painfully apparent for a long
time, that the opposite is true.
Why else would you find it so necessary,
Raid, to beat regular users over the
head with your vast knowledge of
life, the universe, and everything ?"
The only topics I post about here are software and/or copyright related, dreddsnik. If your going to belate me, please try to stick with things I do post about, ok?
" I think THAT is why you keep coming back.
You'll make us listen, by god, yes you will."
I can't make anybody listen if they don't want too. And I'm not here to make you listen either. I'm simply voicing my opinion, my take on things related to the copyright battles currently going on.
leflaw,
"You may want to reconsider, Raid, before I zap you. People apologize here all the time. Its good for the soul. "
Do you intend to delete mroop if he says something you don't like as well? It really drives my point home, I think.
I don't think I will give you an apology leflaw, the comments you made aren't deserving of one. Does the phrase, when hell freezes over sound familiar to you?
Perhaps if you hadn't resorted to petty name calling and just stuck with the discussion at hand, I'd apologize... for what I don't know, but I'd think of something.
But, you wanted to be a dick and now your threatening to remove my account.. So remove it then, enough threats.
I grow tired of the bullshit anyway..
|
|
leflaw
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 11:13 AM
You and mroop are quite different. Even if you are the same person. I actually learn from mroop. He researches the law and comes up with interesting stuff, no matter whether you agree with him or not. There's nothing I want to learn from you especially about copyright. You are a copyright novice, and spew lots of incorrect party line nonsense.
And you are an arrogant foul mouthed slanderer on other websites and groups. Anybody who goolges your email address surely will see that.
I'll bet you learned a lesson there, huh?
|
|
leflaw
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 11:13 AM
thats "googles" |
|
RaidHHI
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 11:22 AM
You and mroop are quite different. Even if you are the same person."
We're not the same person. He's much older then I am, I suspect.
"There's nothing I want to learn from you especially about copyright. You are a copyright novice, and spew lots of incorrect party line nonsense."
With all due respect leflaw, I'd like you to point out the incorrect party line nonsense i've spewed concerning copyright law.
"And you are an arrogant foul mouthed slanderer on other websites and groups. Anybody who goolges your email address surely will see that."
slanderer? I don't hardly think so. foul mouthed, indeed. I cuss like a sailor. :) Various websites and groups like me tho. :)
HHI, demonoid.com, etc...
Can you provide some evidence of your slander comment, or is that much like your other one concerning my knowledge of copyright? Blowing smoke....
Even the antivirus persons don't hold a grudge.
"I'll bet you learned a lesson there, huh?"
I've learned several things since I gave you that url. (1) You really do not have any technical understanding (2) You didn't read the entire thread (3) Various regulars in alt.comp.virus who I've known for 10+ years backed me on my statements, which is why I suspect you didn't read the entire thread. If you thought I got my ass handed to me on that one, your sadly mistaken.
You wanted to play games last night leflaw, thought you would show me up to your expert friends regarding the sony crap... You blew that one, and now were at this point in time... What's next?
|
|
Dreddsnik
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 11:23 AM
"This is the point that is being ingnored ..
"Most people do not want to know whats' in their computer or how it works. Why should they? Its not necessary to use one. " "
What Raid still refuses to acknowledge is still more telling than anything else he posts. |
|
leflaw
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 11:26 AM
http://news.dmusic.com/article/19470#comments |
|
Dreddsnik
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 11:31 AM
Hey Leflaw,
Sorry for sticking my face in this.
just felt the need to defend those
who come here that are NOT technical,
and coincidentally, not stupid.
i'll stay out of it. |
|
leflaw
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 11:32 AM
Its a free for all, no need to stay out of it. I'm done bashing his carcass. If he thinks he is impressive, thats his problem. |
|
leflaw
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 11:33 AM
Right now, he is reading 17 USC 101 and 106. |
|
leflaw
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 11:34 AM
http://news.dmusic.com/article/19470 |
|
leflaw
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 11:37 AM
BTW, sometimes you run into people who start arguments over things that only a fool would disagree with. |
|
RaidHHI
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 11:38 AM
leflaw,
your claiming that I could keep my 500+ albums in mp3 format should I "lose" the original cds I got them from. Do you know of any actual test case where this has been tried?
I'm thinking this runs afoul of the law, due to the fact that I don't tend to keep the originals. What would be the difference then if I borrowed them, ripped them and kept the mp3s? After all, I could just tell a judge I lost the originals, or somebody stole them from me.
It's a serious question.
"I'm done bashing his carcass. If he thinks he is impressive, thats his problem."
Threatening to remove my account unless I apologize is hardly bashing my carcass. Further, making schoolyard antic comments about geek etc, is hardly bashing my carcass.
I'm not trying to impress anyone here, but I don't have to resort to threats to get my point across either.
How many copyright lawsuits have you succesfully defended?
|
|
RaidHHI
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 11:42 AM
"BTW, sometimes you run into people who start arguments over things that only a fool would disagree with."
Ah yes, the complex sony drm program that you had experts for... Have they gotten back to you let regarding my posts?
|
|
Dreddsnik
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 11:50 AM
Thuuuuuuuuuuhhhhh .......
wheelsonthebusgoroundandround
roundandround
roundandround
whelsonthebusgoroundandround..... |
|
PenisBrain
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 11:51 AM
I think Raid should be allowed to stay and have his words stand on their own...We're all "adults" here. Anyone of us have the freedom to challenge him and his views....Denying "our" right to do so can only be an injustice to all members, boycott-riaa.com, and the integrity of the site. We come here because we respect the fact our views will not be censored....I think keeping Raid, myself, mroop and others only strengthens things here.
After all, we see examples all the time from the RIAA how all power corrupts ! How the media are censoring themselves….Prove that we are better! |
|
leflaw
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 11:52 AM
"defended" ? Wrong term
I prosecute more than I "defend", and I have been in about 20 actual suits since 1979, excluding trademarks. Most settled.
I am in one now in the sixth circuit courts of appeals, taking over from another firm, on the issue of constitutionality of statutory damages under Gore v. BMW rule of proportionality. I was also in the Mp3.com litigation, where we were thrown out, and reversed the RIAA ( SONY, BMG, WARNERS) in the second circuit.
During the course of that suit, I was attacked by the RIAA for one million dollar fee shift, the second largest in history. We won.
Serious question? Serious answer - I already gave you the answer. Read the definition of copies and phonorecords under 17 USC 101 and then apply that to 17 USC 106, the rights of a copyright holder of the VARIOUS TYPES OF COPYRIGHT.
You should be aware that the law treats different types of copyright diffrently. I assume you know that.
You don't? |
|
leflaw
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 11:54 AM
Should I wash my hands of this and throw him to the mob?
Quick Raid, what literary allusion did I just make? |
|
RaidHHI
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 11:54 AM
"We come here because we respect the fact our views will not be censored."
That was something leflaw overlooked. He's too interesting in removing me I suppose.
It's fun on occasion to get in a pissing contest, but this is beyond childish... account threats... name calling.... and it's not even from the normal users. lol!
|
|
RaidHHI
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 11:56 AM
leflaw,
"Should I wash my hands of this and throw him to the mob?"
the same mob that thinks it's okay to download in the states, as long as you dont upload? Scary....
"Quick Raid, what literary allusion did I just make?"
Quick leflaw, what did your expert friends think of my diagnosis of the sony rootkit?
|
|
Dreddsnik
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 12:01 PM
"the same mob that thinks it's okay to download in the states, as long as you dont upload? Scary...."
It might be.
The Gonzalez case demonstrated that
the RIAA does not want to test the
possibility that it is ok if you own
the CD/vinyl etc.. by throwing away
all counts in which she owned paid
for copies. The possibility that it
coud be ruled fair use in a court
frightens them. Too "Scary" .. for them.
Maybe that's why they are stressing
the "making availabile for distrubution"
angle now.
Who knows ?
Not me, too stupid. |
|
leflaw
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 12:01 PM
You are really showing your lack of education to the crowd. You really don't know which historical figure washed his hands of the matter and let the crowd decide, do you?
We don't censor ideas. We censor trolls. Especially uneducated ones.
|
|
leflaw
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 12:04 PM
There is no "making available" right of a copyright holder in 17 USC 106. Its aloser argument if you are trying to prove "infringement"
The issue is "aiding and abetting". Thats a bit more tricky, but unsettled.
I was taught in law school - don't take lower court copyright cases too seriously. The judges don't understand the statute. The action is at the appeals courts and Supreme court.
|
|
RaidHHI
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 12:04 PM
"You are really showing your lack of education to the crowd. You really don't know which historical figure washed his hands of the matter and let the crowd decide, do you?"
Perhaps I really don't care? I didn't major in history.
"We don't censor ideas. We censor trolls. Especially uneducated ones."
Ahh, so your taking the road majortreat takes. troll... Yawn, I'm not a troll, I do not work for the riaa, I do not support the riaa.
So we've gone from, the sony thing is complex, to showing that it's not, to calling names, to threats, now to trolling remarks...
|
|
leflaw
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 12:09 PM
"Perhaps I really don't care? I didn't major in history. "
:ROTHFLMAS: |
|
Dreddsnik
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 12:12 PM
Thanks leflaw.
The read the pdfs of the Santangelo
case and my eyes begin to glaze over,
and I start feeling the need for
sleepytime. At the same time I get
more and more angry that they can
cost her so much cash for the priviledge
of showing her what "proof" they have.
I honestly don't think they have any,
and are COUNTING ON bleeding her
dry of resources before being forced
to lay ALL of their cards on the table.
That's why folks who come here with
the "give up" , "you can't win", "the law is the law" spiel give me such ... indigestion.
These cases need to come to trial.
They need to go all the way. The only
way that happens is if we DON'T allow
ourselves to give up on Patti. Keep
pushing the button. |
|
leflaw
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 12:13 PM
feom wikipedia:
"In Internet terminology, a troll is a person who posts rude or offensive messages on the Internet, such as on online discussion forums, to disrupt discussion or to upset its participants."
Thats you. I don't care what your computer skills are - you are a one trick pony. |
|
leflaw
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 12:14 PM
not you, Dredd, Raid. |
|
Dreddsnik
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 12:15 PM
""Perhaps I really don't care? I didn't major in history. ""
OMFG.
"You are really showing your lack of education to the crowd. You really don't know which historical figure washed his hands of the matter and let the crowd decide, do you?"
I asked a bag person, rifling through the
dumpster by the local "Jewel" this
question. They knew the answer. |
|
leflaw
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 12:17 PM
BTW, I will defend anyone who wants to ATTACK the RIAA and not settle.
Attack means counterclaiming for unclean hands and attempted monopoly. I don't care if you downloaded the whole friggin catalogue.
I have to put up $300- 500,000 dollars worth of my money to fight, and I will not do so for the faint of heart. |
|
PenisBrain
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 12:18 PM
"We don't censor ideas. We censor trolls. Especially uneducated ones."
Raid and I have never crossed paths, I not all that techie when it comes to computers and he's not really politically inclined. But on thing I've noticed is that the person is far from uneducated and doesn't have to use name calling and "racial epithets" to bash the opposition...Know what I mean Larry?? Hint Hint!!
Get control of ourselves and just allow the guys words to stand on their own...they're plenty of members here who could go toe to toe with Raid...The lack of many of us not doing so leads me to believe that Raid maybe on to something and makes a good account for himself.
I am by no means defending Raid….He does a pretty good job of that himself! |
|
leflaw
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 12:18 PM
Dredd-
Can you believe this guy's total lack of education? |
|
Dreddsnik
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 12:19 PM
"Please allow me to introduce myself,
Im a man of wealth, and taste .." |
|
leflaw
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 12:20 PM
What "racial epithets"?
|
|
leflaw
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 12:21 PM
....And I see no evidence of education beyond ITT computer Vocational school. |
|
leflaw
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 12:24 PM
Gadfly, here's your hero in action in his own environment....
I'm still wondering what problems your feeble little mind is possibly
capable of either solving or assisting in solving. You have got to be
one of the dumbest little ****s I've ever come across on usenet. You
know, back in my Raid vx days; I didn't encounter people as mouthy and
ignorant at the same time as you've been the last few days. Not even on
irc. Even the ****ing aolers had more brains then you. Christ. When I
get a chance to meet morons like you, it brings back fond memories of
vxing. Your such an ignorant ****. Callin me a liar, tellin me I don't
know **** about viruses. I've written many, I would think I know a
****ing thing or two about them. Whats the name of any you've written,
you dumb ****?
I've long since retired from vxing, and forgotten many of the routines;
But I still suspect what I forgot is more then you're ever going to
learn. Your not ****. Your never going to be ****. heh.. You ****in
lamer. My God... And to think I spent days trying to defend myself, to
some stupid little blowhard like you. HAHAHA...
Regards,
Dustin Cook
http://bughunter.atspace.org |
|
leflaw
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 12:25 PM
This guy is an asshole, and he can go somewhere else, as far as I am concerned. |
|
Dreddsnik
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 12:28 PM
"Can you believe this guy's total lack of education?"
I know many totally uneducated folks
that are truly brilliant.
Raid is an educated person with
complete contempt for anyone who
doesn't have the same "education".
"The lack of many of us not doing so leads me to believe that Raid maybe on to something and makes a good account for himself."
I don't think it's that quite so much, gad
as it is the non-technical that come here
( this is not really intended to be a site
for Techies ) are intimidated .
Intimidation through Techno-snobbery
does not necessarily mean raid is on to
anything.
It's just fancy bullying.
This, for example,
the post that started this mess ..
"The term rootkit doesn't really apply.. but whatever. Since when are you concerned with technical things? :)
The program is easy enough to remove for anyone but a newbie... "
Instead of making it a point to shame
the non technical here, providing links
to places that describe how to remove
these menaces would have been helpful,
and productive. Readers could look for
themselves and decide of the procedure
is something they can do.
Instead .....
"Since when are you concerned with technical things? :)
The program is easy enough to remove for anyone but a newbie... "
Snobbery.
"I'm smart, you're dumb. I'm big, you're small and theres nothing you can do about it " |
|
RaidHHI
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 12:28 PM
vocational training? Lots of laughs buddy.
|
|
leflaw
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 12:37 PM
Some people won't listen to words - they have to be shown the true path.
Now for example, I could cancel Raid's account without banning his ip. Then he would be forced to re-register until I ban his ip. This of course would be easy for a person like him to undo, just like the "root kit" . So therefore, I am not really attacking or inconveniencing him, just like Sony BMG and the root kit, and not really banning him.
Right, Raid?
Hmmmm............ |
|
PenisBrain
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 12:41 PM
What "racial epithets"?
Come on Larry you're "liberal" use of the "N-word'? Awhile back? You know it’s out there...I don’t throw out things like that unless I mean it!
Look Larry I respect what you're trying to do here with combating the RIAA and giving artists an outlet to share their music with the masses....I have to tell you though...with the exception of porn filth and spam...I think everyone "everyone!" should have their say. And come on how much fun would it "really" be with yourself, George, and Shadowmom in this echo chamber we call boycott. Allow the man to voice...give everyone the chance to take him down a peg.....If we can???? |
|
Dreddsnik
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 12:42 PM
"I am by no means defending Raid….He does a pretty good job of that himself! "
Not really.
He's demonstrated he knows his stuff.
( we all knew that anyway. )
He's puffed out his chest about how
educated he is.
( we all knew that anyway )
He's pointed to news group TECHNICAL
forums populated with tech saavy
people, which basically shows he
knows his stuff.
( we all knew that anyway ).
All of this means ...
Raid knows his technology.
We knew this.
Not arguing that.
But so far that is all he is doing.
Chest thumping.
So,
Can raid be a help, a benefit to this site.
Yes,
If he chooses to.
He does not.
His opinion. Noted, appreciated.
His insults and jibe to the non-technical.
Pure troll poop. |
|
leflaw
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 12:44 PM
He doesn't know shit about law. |
|
leflaw
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 12:46 PM
Show me my "liberal use of the N-word"
(and I don't mean talking about NWA or quoting any number of rap songs.)
|
|
PenisBrain
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 12:49 PM
Look! If the guy is as talented as he says he is Larry....Reach out to him...We need every single person we can get...He doesn't agree with everything going on here, neither do I, but I know the guy hates the RIAA even more.That enough should keep him here! You're the boss here Larry so I hope I don't have to explain the very basics of diplomacy.
Boycott isn’t going to get anywhere with a hothead at the helm! |
|
Dreddsnik
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 12:51 PM
"He doesn't agree with everything going on here,"
His lack of agreement with anyone is not
the issue. As I pointed out. |
|
PenisBrain
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 12:52 PM
“Show me my "liberal use of the N-word"
Really want me to? I was hoping to save you the embarrassment ? |
|
R5D4
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 12:58 PM
>>in this echo chamber we call boycott.
and instead of...
fighting over real world definitions and getting into a form of masterbation with RaidHHI arguing just for the pleasure of it without any real purpose?
Since RaidHHI is here...FOR YEARS??? and doesn't support the Boycott...I can only assume that this is the only place on the WWW that hasn't kicked him out.
and it doesn't have to be an echo chamber.
|
|
Dreddsnik
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 1:02 PM
"RaidHHI arguing just for the pleasure of it without any real purpose? "
LOL :)
I'll hold the nail for you |
|
PenisBrain
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 1:05 PM
"I can only assume that this is the only place on the WWW that hasn't kicked him out."
And it's that that makes this very site a "good" thing! All I'm saying Larry is wait before you pull the trigger. The casual viewers to this blog are watching what you do....We want to keep them here and not scare them off by censorship. Banning people is just going to hurt the credibility boycott-riaa.com and send the casual viewers packing.
It's them I'm "always" concerned with...they're our future contributors! |
|
leflaw
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 1:07 PM
You certainly are correct in worrying about the future as well as the present. |
|
R5D4
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 1:09 PM
and....I think you are keeping RaidHHI from finding a website supporting war orphans.
|
|
MajorTreat
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 1:10 PM
RaidHHI is an reagent agent ignore him. |
|
Dreddsnik
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 1:12 PM
"The casual viewers to this blog are watching what you do.... "
Possibly the same ones that won't post,
because they don't want to be flamed
by people like raid, simply because they
don't share his technical expertise.
Two edged sword.
Will they be put off by "censoring" Raid ?
Or, will they feel that the administration
is doing the right thing by not allowing
users to badger insult and flame others
in pointless insult fests.
Will they feel that Raid is censored for his "ideas" ( not true ) or his elitist mocking attitude ? ( more true ).
|
|
R5D4
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 1:14 PM
>>RaidHHI is an reagent agent ignore him.
I'm convinced it's just his personality, and vitamin D deficiency.
|
|
R5D4
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 1:15 PM
Dreddsnik "DITTO" |
|
MajorTreat
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 1:15 PM
RIA DHHI claimed suspiciously previoulsy that he does not know anything about encrypted and anonymous P2P application.
He also claimed that he does not know how to copy various type of DRM CD while it is a peice of cake.
RAID HHI is now on his hight tech horse.
RAID RIA is an RIAA agent.
Raid RIA is a fraud! Ignore him! |
|
R5D4
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 1:16 PM
So how many Moderators are there? Or is there an FAQ that I should have read. |
|
leflaw
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 1:17 PM
Present: Sony BMG settles. Preliminary approval given.
Future: - Some troll who justs like to argue, and actually has some computer chops, actually tries to publically convince people that the average consumer - THE AVERAGE CONSUMER, which is what the law tells us to protect - should know how to disinfect a computer.
Final approval of settlement denied by court - " The average user should already know how to disinfect a computer" quoting this website.
___________________________
I sat in court and watched Michael Robertson get impaled on his own posts to pho list. That won't happen here. Not on my watch. Not because of some sophomoric one man monty python argument clinic!
He may be smart, educated, talented.
Too much at stake. We have come too far!! I don't care what you think. This site
has made a tremendous difference in disseminating good information. And I don't need to sit on panels at digerati filled events to know it.
This man/women is dangerous to himself and others. He is pissing in the pool, pollutin gth e waters, jeopardizing what we have accomplished so far. SONY BMG DRM IS THE BEGINNING OF THE END OF DRM, unless you let the likes of RAID yell fire in a crowded theatre.
|
|
Dreddsnik
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 1:19 PM
"RIA DHHI claimed suspiciously previoulsy that he does not know anything about encrypted and anonymous P2P application.
He also claimed that he does not know how to copy various type of DRM CD while it is a peice of cake.
RAID HHI is now on his hight tech horse.
RAID RIA is an RIAA agent.
Raid RIA is a fraud! Ignore him! "
I'm sorry MajorTreat,
Raid has always professed to be the"guru" of all things tech. I simply can't recall anytime that wasn't true.
He has always been on a tech "highhorse"
I still don't think he is an "agent" of
the RIAA, but his "give up, you can't win, you're fools to fight" attitude is galling. |
|
Dreddsnik
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 1:26 PM
"Final approval of settlement denied by court - " The average user should already know how to disinfect a computer" quoting this website. "
Which is why he intimidates other users into not posting.
Again,
The average person cannot be expected
to know more about reparing his PC, than he does about reparing his "Fridge", Air conditioning, fixing his car etc .....
The "average" person either
A: does not want to bother
B: does not have the aptitude for it.
This does not make them stupid.
It makes them .. normal.
|
|
PenisBrain
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 1:30 PM
Since we're worried about the present and the future...how about a blast from the past Larry.....Does the name kneo24 ring a bell???
It should...you and he had some chat back in 2003..
"Too much at stake. We have come too far!! I don't care what you think."
I wonder what our casual viewers and potential allies would think if they so happen to see this little gem of a thread.
Stop playing the postman in All Quiet On The Western Front Larry...Makes you wonder just what a man becomes with a little power! |
|
Dreddsnik
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 1:39 PM
"Does the name kneo24 ring a bell???"
I remember.
I was a lurker on that thread.
I think kneo24 should have been drawn
and quartered, as well as banned.
When you post that link ....
please be sure to post the link to the ENTIRE thread, not just excerpts, and
be sure to post links to every thread
kneo24 participated in that led up to
that final confrontation. Lots of things
led up to that. A slow burn. |
|
Dreddsnik
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 1:47 PM
"Makes you wonder just what a man becomes with a little power! "
Considering the last ban occured in
2003 .....
i'm just not seeing it. |
|
PenisBrain
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 1:47 PM
Good Lord can this Dreddsnik be any more of a buttsniffer?
Don't worry Dreddsnik I have both the link and the whole thread saved. It's not so much of what kneo24 was as it is the despicable responds from others he or she generated. I'm Jewish and such racial terms I find deployable. And some who are like me and who are from the same people should know better! |
|
Dreddsnik
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 1:51 PM
But, seriously, gad,
I really do not want to get into
the politics of censorship, or ANY
kind of politics with you.
I'm simply not in your league and
have no trouble admitting it.
Just keep in mind ...
I have been participating in a lot of
"open" forums, blogs and such, and
I am sure you have too. Can you
honestly say that this is a den of
tyranny ??
I know I can't. |
|
Dreddsnik
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 1:52 PM
Now that Godwin's law has been officially invoked.
I'm outta here. |
|
PenisBrain
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 1:57 PM
"Can you honestly say that this is a den of tyranny ??"
Why start now!
Look I've crossed paths with everyone here from mroop to Larry. Raid and I haven't and have stayed clear of each other...But I'm sure at some point we will...Unlike the rest of you who seek to ban him...I look forward to the discourse. I think he can be both an great asset and a formable foe....Either way I'd like to reign him in and bring him into the fold...A carrot over a stick doesn't hurt anyone! |
|
PenisBrain
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 2:02 PM
Godwin's law huh? Seems I've seen that term mentioned by somebody before.
Is that you grumpygeezer? Miss you sweets! |
|
Dreddsnik
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 2:09 PM
"Good Lord can this Dreddsnik be any more of a buttsniffer? "
Really Gad,
I've been really really good about
avoiding name calling with you.
Please show me the same courtesy.
I KNOW you're better than that. |
|
Dreddsnik
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 2:14 PM
"Godwin's Law (also Godwin's Rule of Nazi Analogies) is an adage in Internet culture originated by Mike Godwin on Usenet in 1990 that states:
As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1.
There is a tradition of protocol in many Usenet newsgroups that once such a comparison is made, the thread in which the comment was posted is over and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever debate was in progress.
It is considered poor form to raise arbitrarily such a comparison with the motive of ending the thread. There is a widely recognized codicil that any such deliberate invocation of Godwin's Law will be unsuccessful. "
I DID use it a bit loosely.
When you mentioned your Jewish faith,
I could see the specter of Godwin's ( thus, thread death ) fast approaching.
I think it is pretty dead now, at any rate. |
|
R5D4
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 2:26 PM
>>Godwin's Law
that was interesting.
|
|
leflaw
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 2:33 PM
There is no Godwins law here. I suspended it. I am a student of history. You might as well say that any reference to the Maceadonian conquest of Asia ends all threads.
Kneo24 was a case in point. Bright, thoughtful, educated, and absolutely dangerous to all of us. Just as the RIAA attacks in court for the first time, Kneo attacks the webmaster of Boycott-RIAA ( Bill Evans, not me), publically, in front of all to see. If the analogy is war, I simply pulled out a revolver and shot him, to protect the other troops. The fact that he may have been right is irrelevent. He was executed for bad timing. |
|
PenisBrain
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 2:49 PM
"Please show me the same courtesy."
Ok Dreddsnik you’re right. I take it back...
I'm aware of what Godwin's Law means.
"When you mentioned your Jewish faith,
I could see the specter of Godwin's ( thus, thread death ) fast approaching."
So let me get this straight?? It's not right to point out ones political affiliations, or their families proud connection to the military, and now the very fact one is Jewish??? Speaking of the military, wasn’t there also a not kind thread about our nations finest? One which I’ve also saved…and the unedited version!!!
"I simply pulled out a revolver and shot him, to protect the other troops."
MMM yeah like commissars in Stalinist Russia...no shock there!
|
|
leflaw
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 2:51 PM
...And not knowing when to shut up. |
|
leflaw
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 2:52 PM
How about the execution of Private Eddie Slovak?
|
|
PenisBrain
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 3:00 PM
Geez Eddie Slovak I forgot about that one where did you did that up?
Edward Donald Slovik you mean? Shot during the go-go Democrat FDR\Truman era?
|
|
leflaw
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 3:04 PM
"Democrat FDR\Truman era?"
Most people call that World War II |
|
leflaw
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 3:04 PM
Gad, you know I am a bottomless pit of useless information. |
|
PenisBrain
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 3:09 PM
Got me there....I know about Edward Slovik with the proper spelling I might add but have no clue what or when World War 2 was. Hell I should just hand back my history and poli sci degrees right now! |
|
PenisBrain
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 3:10 PM
"Gad, you know I am a bottomless pit of useless information."
My God Larry you and I both...makes for good chatter at cocktail parties though! |
|
leflaw
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 3:17 PM
I would have had a boycott Cocktail party by now, but there are a few guests who would like to kick my ass.... |
|
captdunsel
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 3:38 PM
I saw that movie----
"not one clean hit"
Question
how do you get on a firing squad if you can't hit the target?
answer
join the guard. |
|
PenisBrain
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 3:44 PM
"I would have had a boycott Cocktail party by now"
Does that mean I get to where my finest dress? Who will dance with me?
George maybe? |
|
leflaw
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 4:14 PM
Tom barger. |
|
leflaw
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 4:56 PM
BTW, the kneo24 thread:
http://news.dmusic.com/article/8378 |
|
tomsong
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 5:17 PM
We only had one beer at lunch. |
|
leflaw
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 5:20 PM
BARGER!!! |
|
leflaw
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 5:21 PM
I knew you were RaidHHI |
|
R5D4
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 7:07 PM
Can I buy a vowel? |
|
R5D4
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 7:45 PM
Something bothered me ...Gad said **Come on Larry you're "liberal" use of the "N-word'?**
I have to say Gad I was Republican Conservative, voted for Ronnie, NRA member for 10 years. I never used the "N-Word"
Anyone can be a bigot. Hopefully I wasn't the only conservative.
|
|
PenisBrain
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 7:53 PM
"Anyone can be a bigot. Hopefully I wasn't the only conservative."
Larry can't fight his own battles??? We have to have this no-name asshole joining in?
R5D4 are you bobbing his knob too? |
|
OldCodger
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 7:58 PM
Observation: Last post showing on this thread by RaidHHI was over7 hours ago.
Hmm.
|
|
R5D4
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 8:02 PM
GadflyDiscourse...What if you say something stupid I can't point it out?
Rats!
|
|
PenisBrain
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 8:25 PM
"Rats!"
Ok Charlie Brown, The thread is all yours. |
|
PenisBrain
|
Date: February 15, 2006 @ 10:04 PM
Something bothered me ...Gad said **Come on Larry you're "liberal" use of the "N-word'?**
"GadflyDiscourse...What if you say something stupid I can't point it out?"
I wasn't being stupid, I was mocking hence the parities. Now I have to explain my sarcasm to these no-name freakers...Those who know me here, Know I do "everything" with reason! |
|
R5D4
|
Date: February 16, 2006 @ 9:03 AM
Good grief! |
|
OldCodger
|
Date: February 16, 2006 @ 10:08 AM
"Rats!"
"Good grief!"
"Why is everybody always picking on me?"
"Gimme my [security] blanket back!" |
|
R5D4
|
Date: February 16, 2006 @ 10:14 AM
arrrrrrgh! |
|
InsaneWayne
|
Date: February 16, 2006 @ 1:11 PM
When I took socalology classes in college (shouldve took spelling classes also) "average" was defined as the 50% in the middle. If average is 6 - 8 then 25% of the population is under 6 and 25% of the population is over 8. Personally I'm a 9 hour sleeper (what did ya think I was talking about?)
Being "above average" means being above 75% of the population. Riad, altho not sharing the techie details I would love to read, knows how to uninstall Sony's unfair DRM. Prob'ly 90% of the PC owning population would need a program to properly uninstall such DRM. Hence Sony needs to be sued and perhaps provide such programming for free, ect ect.
I find overhauling GM's Turbo 350 Automatic Transmission to be quite easy and would attemt to do so blindfolded for a bet. One just needs a slide hammer, snap ring pliers, and a few simple hand tools. I don't expect 75% of the automotive owners out there to be able to do this. Hell how many car owners here even know what model transmission is IN their car now? |
|
R5D4
|
Date: February 16, 2006 @ 1:47 PM
I'm not even sure where the transmission is.
|
|
OldCodger
|
Date: February 16, 2006 @ 8:55 PM
And, as far as RaidHHI is concerned, there is no posting for him showing on any thread since 12:28 p.m. yesterday.
He was blowing and going strong on this thread, until (abruptly) no more dialogue came from him.
That's kinda curious.
:-) |
|
PenisBrain
|
Date: February 16, 2006 @ 9:21 PM
"That's kinda curious."
Tells me the guy has a life! |
|
captdunsel
|
Date: February 16, 2006 @ 9:25 PM
a turbo 350 is no challenge. tear into a jaguar sometime |
|
OldCodger
|
Date: February 16, 2006 @ 9:47 PM
"Tells me the guy has a life!"
Yeah, apart from us.
|
|
independentm...
|
Date: February 17, 2006 @ 6:35 AM
Hi folks! I guess should put up another Sony "rootkit" and EMI thread and steer the conversation back on target, (this "rootkit" stuff is a VERY important topic for us, and we need to keep it fresh on everyone's mind) but let's give it a day or two. (leflaw's been having so much fun) |
|
InsaneWayne
|
Date: February 17, 2006 @ 10:40 AM
As a Certified Master Mechanic with an Associate's Degree in Automotive Technology I'm qualified to teach you how to rebuild any transmission, be it a Jaguar's or a simple Autotranny with the good ol' Simpson gear drive in it. I'll do a 350 Turbo blindfolded, not many imports in Redneckville, but the parts for the Porche I worked on were prohibitive. I live in a county with @ 50,000 people and only 5 Master Mechanics, and perhaps 5 more Certified in Automatic Trannys. 0.01% of the local population would find overhaul's "easy"? Hmmm maybe a few hundred backyard mechanics could swap tranny's?
Raid found fixing a rootkit problem easy. As a "backyard PC mechanic" I can maintain my PC as well as a few friends, but the only way I can fix malware installed at the root is to wipe a hard drive clean and start fresh. I consiter myself to be above average with PCs but Im no expert by any means.
When I chit chat with backyard mechanics I try to be a bit more polite then Raid has been in this thread. As a college trained professional I have respect for people who can work on their own vehicle's correctly with good results. Eh, Im starting to rattle on again....
The average PC owner can not simply uninstall Sony's malware. |
|
independentm...
|
Date: February 17, 2006 @ 11:21 AM
RaidHHI does seem to "know his stuff" and I have always tried to salute him for his tech abilities...
But as I, leflaw, and most of the rest of us have observed, (not just in this thread, but for a LONG time) RaidHHI has been an arrogant ego-mad elitist snob about things. It's like having sand in your butt-crack.
I personally have had no reason to bar RaidHHI from participating in our forums (no matter how damn mad he sometimes makes me)
...but if he pisses off leflaw, and leflaw decides to "take action" against him, (by banning him, cancelling user-account, whathaveyou...) Well, leflaw would be within his rights to do so.
leflaw allows a HELL of a lot of stuff to get posted in our forums that he/me/we don't agree with. But when it really gets down to it, THIS IS STILL LEFLAW'S CHALK-BOARD!!! He doesn't HAVE to allow an as "open to free-speech" policy as we have always enjoyed.
Be thankful for it folks! The way I see it, this site ultimately is "leflaw's megaphone" and he lets YOU AND ME use it because in general he wants his megaphone to be used speaking on behalf of the general populace on these issues.
ALL of us have every opportunity to go elsewhere if we don't like it when leflaw "steps in" and grabs hold of the megaphone or writes/erases something the chalkboard.
Over the years since Dmusic acquired Boycott-Riaa from the creator (Bill Evans) I think leflaw has displayed that he has always been MORE than "fair" about things.
I am NOT saying you should feel that you can't "disagree" with leflaw on this or that topic (...I have had quite a few disagreements with him myself in the past, probably will have more-so sometime in the future.)
...but sheesh folks, RaidHHI just hasn't seemed to understand that he is in leflaw's house. You CAN piss-off even the most gracious of hosts don't ya know?
If leflaw throws RaidHHI out the door for a while, it is RAID's own damn fault. He should have been more gracious to the host.
There ARE limits of behaviour, even in the most liberal of households. |
|
independentm...
|
Date: February 17, 2006 @ 11:25 AM
There!
(I tried to stay "out of it" as long as I could... but I couldn't help myself from saying something that I thought needed to be said.)
:) |
|
independentm...
|
Date: February 17, 2006 @ 11:27 AM
I guess I better go ahead and find/write something SONY/EMI "rootkit" -ish so we can get back to the ORIGINALLY intended topic/reason for this thread. |
|
PenisBrain
|
Date: February 17, 2006 @ 12:58 PM
Again I say...If the guy isn't trying to bring down the site through hacking or some means..I say allow him to stay.
It's funny, I kind of look forward to his posts..And most times...He's winning! Maybe that's the "real" reason we want him banned!
God forbid if we make the likes of "GeorgeZ" look bad. |
|
independentm...
|
Date: February 17, 2006 @ 2:48 PM
Gad, I just took up for/defended your ass privately with another person behind the scenes.
...and then you gotta go and dump on George.
*sigh*
=======
...and NO, Raid is very smart, and I actually admire his skills very much, (and look forward to his posts too, infuriating to me as the most often are believe it or not)
...but RaidHHI does have a habit of taking AWAY from his potential "wins" by acting as such a high-fangled smug smart-ass.
RaidHHI is not "winning" when he comes in here looking down on the majority of the rest of us because he is a "computer geek" who somehow automatically "groks" how to get rid of rootkits and viruses and such.
(Hell, Raid already admitted to BEING a virus-writer/hacker in fact...)
=========
Folks, Boycott-Riaa is NOT a "geeky-tech-hacker" community. We are here for ANYBODY who cares about the issues involved. SURE, there are areas where it gets all "techincal" ...and there are areas where it gets all "legalistic" ...and historical, ...and philisophical, ...and etc./whatever.
...but NOBODY has ALL the answers or
"right/correct" opinions/solutions off the bat.
That's why we are a COMMUNITY!
========
leflaw is the OWNER of this chalkboard. It is very HARD to to piss him off enough to take away YOUR chalk that he hands out freely to anyone who enters the discussion.
RaidHHI has been trying HARD to do just that.
I'm all FOR letting RaidHHI stay, even though I am VERY DEAD SET against a large number of his opinions/ideas. (RaidHHI often pisses ME off and is frequently infuriating... and, he is admittedly NOT "with the boycott" per-se, (even tho he "hates" the RIAA too.)
But leflaw will decide things in THAT matter. |
|
leflaw
|
Date: February 17, 2006 @ 3:34 PM
Maybe this will explain to you the danger of letting a fool talk incessantly about foolish things in public. I don't suffer fools.
______________________________________________________
Homeland Security official suggests outlawing rootkits
By Joris Evers
http://news.com.com/Homeland+Security+official+suggests+outlawing+rootkits/2100-7348_3-6040726.html
Story last modified Fri Feb 17 06:29:05 PST 2006
advertisement
SAN JOSE, Calif.--Perhaps the best way to deal with rootkits is to outlaw them.
At least when it comes to such mishaps as the Sony BMG Music
Entertainment fiasco, that's what an official from the Department of
Homeland Security suggested Thursday.
"The recent Sony experience shows us that we need to be thinking
about how we ensure that consumers are not surprised by what their
software programs do," Jonathan Frenkel, director of law enforcement
policy at the U.S Department of Homeland Security said in a speech
here at the RSA Conference 2006.
A lesson has been learned from the Sony debacle, which left unwitting
consumers with software on their PCs that could be used by
cyberattackers to hide their malicious code. "Companies now know that
they should not surreptitiously install a rootkit on computers," Frenkel said.
But perhaps more importantly, how could the mishap have been avoided
in the first place? "Legislation or regulation may not be a solution
in all cases, but it may be warranted in appropriate circumstances,"
Frenkel said.
Last November, Sony was found to be shipping copy-protected compact
discs that planted so-called rootkit software on the computers that
played them. The rootkit technology offered a hiding place for
malicious software and attackers, which were quick to exploit it.
In other news:
* Newsmaker: Ending Redmond's identity crisis
* Reporter's notebook: High tech's trip to toyland
* RSA: Consumer trust and the government's thrust
* Images: A flying car in every garage?
* Roundup: Capitol Hill's fury on China
After the rootkit technology was uncovered on Sony's CDs, the company
faced heavy criticism and lawsuits. It recalled the discs, stopped
production and has agreed to offer compensation for buyers of the CDs
that contain the rootkit.
Since the Sony case, other companies have been accused of shipping
products with rootkit-type behavior. Symantec last month released an
update to its popular Norton SystemWorks to fix a security problem
that could be abused by cybercriminals to hide malicious software.
According to F-Secure, a Finnish antivirus vendor, the German DVD
release of "Mr. & Mrs. Smith," contains a digital rights management
protection tool that uses rootkit-like cloaking technology. The movie
is distributed by 20th Century Fox.
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independentm...
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Date: February 17, 2006 @ 4:16 PM
Tread carefully thru this carefully laid mine-field leflaw. |
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InsaneWayne
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Date: February 17, 2006 @ 4:58 PM
Fight hard to defend Jane and Joe Average from Corperate greed! Save the average PC from being attacked and hacked by Sony and others! Currently I am afraid to put my "good" PC online or to insert Corperate CDs and/or DVDs into it.
Our Founding Fathers would be proud of men such as Leflaw. |
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PenisBrain
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Date: February 17, 2006 @ 5:40 PM
"Gad, I just took up for/defended your ass privately with another person behind the scenes.
...and then you gotta go and dump on George."
I respect you Mike, leftlaw, and George, but I'm not going to deny this site from seeing our asses handed to us every once in awhile. I think it's good that myself, and others are taken down a peg. It's hard to be humble, and sometimes it takes fellow members to put us all in line....Mike you've done it to me in the past and I have no ill feelings over it. I figure we overstep our bounds and this website...if it's fully open,should allow our members to have that right to sort themselves out. It's true, it's Larry's site and in the end I hope I'm appealing to his reason. Of course there's a line which even I would agree to pull the trigger. I certainly don't think Raid has passed that point yet....As a matter of fact, I think for the most part most of us are civil...You have to have thick skin if you want to belly up to the bar here....As for George, he'd be happy if all the people "he" didn't like be removed for the lest of infractions...I know, I've read his posts.
It's nice that you defended me out of ear shot Mike, but I'm a live wire :->
Who wouldn't want me any other way!
Just kidding...
But it's safe to say that one has to allow the opposition to the site and it's leadership. We can not banish the other side because they don't agree with our points of view. There's even certain shades of gray like myself....Who agree with destroying the RIAA and the cartel but don't agree with the methods some advocate here. Allowing the otherside their say strengthens all our stance. I think it's good that we along with the opposition has a true open forum. After all we want the media to be unafraid to come here. What better way to better our side as to debate them directly. Larry and mroop are both lawyers...They understand this better than anyone. Allow them to enter our belly of the beast. If we're certain we're right there's no reason to be afraid of anything!
So rule up your sleaves gents..Allow the enemy to pass through the gates. We're ready for them! |
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independentm...
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Date: February 17, 2006 @ 5:58 PM
:) |
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Dreddsnik
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Date: February 17, 2006 @ 7:38 PM
"It's funny, I kind of look forward to his posts..And most times...He's winning! Maybe that's the "real" reason we want him banned! "
Really ?
I re-read this thread.
A couple of times.
Raid NEVER fully addressed why he thinks it is reasonable to expect the average pc user to be able to remove rootkits.
Never.
Most of his statements were aimed at proving how tech savvy he is ( none are disagreeing with that ) or outright insults.
How can one "win" ant debate without answering the questions posed ?
Why is is reasonable to expect the average user to be able to remove sophisticated rootkit or similar invasions from their PC ?
THAT is the real question.
Not how smart Raid is.
Answer this question reasonably enough to convince, and then he "wins" :)
so far, he hasn't even tried to comment on it.
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PenisBrain
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Date: February 17, 2006 @ 8:52 PM
"Answer this question reasonably enough to convince, and then he "wins" :)"
I'm not speaking for him....Well maybe in a way I am!!!
But if It was me I'd answer the question when "I" felt the time was right..not yours.
Let you all stew in your own juices....Viewing the posts, That seems to be the case. |
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PenisBrain
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Date: February 17, 2006 @ 8:55 PM
By the way, I think myself and others have already posted ways to remove Sony/BMG XCP rootkit. My beef is why it's there in the first place. |
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Dreddsnik
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Date: February 17, 2006 @ 9:21 PM
"Let you all stew in your own juices....Viewing the posts, That seems to be the case. "
Not stewing at all :)
I don't believe he HAS an answer.
I don't believe he ever intended an answer.
He has an opinion, with no intention of backing it up with any reasoning other than ,
"i'm smarter than you .. deal with it"
as his foundation of reason.
Not a way to win a debate of any kind.
"By the way, I think myself and others have already posted ways to remove Sony/BMG XCP rootkit. My beef is why it's there in the first place. "
Yes you have, and others have as well.
THAT'S informative, contructive, and helpful to all, whether they agree with each other philosophically or not.
Myself, and many others I am sure have followed those very links. I am able to understand and use that info, pretty easily. My mom, my best friends, my next door neighbor, the fire chief, the school principal, the local Attorney ... they can't. They look at it, their eyes glaze over ... some of them convulse .. it's not pretty ;)
Smart .. professional .. people.
The rootkit should not be there. We agree on that.
Ordinary joes should not be expected to be able to handle it on their own ... my opinion. I have done my level best to back up that opinion, with some small bit of reasoning.
He has no reasoning, therefore no answer. Anything else is misdirection.
smoke and mirrors. |
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PenisBrain
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Date: February 17, 2006 @ 9:26 PM
Well it's you guys battle with Raid from this point forward....I'll gonna stay out of it now. |
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ShadowMom
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Date: February 17, 2006 @ 11:54 PM
This is leflaw's house...and he's not going to let Raid or anybody else spout crap that could be thrown back in his face in a court case. What's so bad about that? He's trying to win here, and protect the average user. And if he has to kick an ass or two on the way, more power to him. |
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PenisBrain
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Date: February 18, 2006 @ 12:33 AM
"This is leflaw's house...and he's not going to let Raid or anybody else spout crap that could be thrown back in his face in a court case."
I'm sure if Larry is that good of a lawyer...he'll be on his toes...
Go back and join Hillary in making the world safe from that Right-wing conspiracy. |
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OldCodger
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Date: February 18, 2006 @ 12:39 AM
"The memory-resident executable that Sony installs is easy to remove. Two registry keys, one folder and some files, and you're done." — RaidHHI
I've pondered this main issue for some time now, and concluded that Leflaw's and Dreddsnik's perspective is reasonable and cannot be refuted.
The typical computer user cannot be expected to have the knowledge/skill to "disinfect" (remove intrusive, cloaking malware).
An accomplished programmer/technician may turn up his nose at hapless end-users, but such condescension doesn't change circumstances: The average Joe, even if granted to be able to use a boot disk, isn't on friendly terms with a registry editor.
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ShadowMom
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Date: February 18, 2006 @ 1:00 AM
Oooh Gad I will. That right-wing conspiracy is going down... |
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OldCodger
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Date: February 18, 2006 @ 1:02 AM
"Go back and join Hillary in making the world safe from that Right-wing conspiracy."
We have seen Big Brother get bigger under administrations from both political parties, but the greater disgrace comes from the party that traditionally has parroted allegiance to limited government.
You're a political science major, so I know you're aware of this truth.
I yearn for the time when more people will share disenchantment with the present party system here in America.
Maintaining a libertarian approach to things underscores the significance of being wary about how individual rights and freedoms have come under increasing assault in recent years.
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Dreddsnik
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Date: February 18, 2006 @ 10:02 AM
"I've pondered this main issue for some time now, and concluded that Leflaw's and Dreddsnik's perspective is reasonable and cannot be refuted.
The typical computer user cannot be expected to have the knowledge/skill to "disinfect" (remove intrusive, cloaking malware). "
That's why he didn't even try to refute it.
I recommend any newcomers to this thread, take the time to read the entire thread. |
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PenisBrain
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Date: February 18, 2006 @ 11:12 AM
"That's why he didn't even try to refute it."
He can't "refute" it if the guys been banned...Which I believe he has been...
Kind of reminds me of a child who plays cars with his other mates and decides he doesn't like the game anymore, changes the rules and ups and walks away and goes home like the spoiled brat that he is...Leaving everyone with a feeling of WTF???
And it's not Raid I'm talking about here! |
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PenisBrain
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Date: February 18, 2006 @ 11:16 AM
"Oooh Gad I will. That right-wing conspiracy is going down..."
And you'll "get" that right-wing conspiracy or if my name isn't The Gadfly....
Oh well the Cheney story looks to be almost dead in the water...Oh well there's always next weeks White House Press Corp. Scandal.
You shadom like them will "get" that Watergate, you'll see.
Sure you will! |
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PenisBrain
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Date: February 18, 2006 @ 11:26 AM
"Maintaining a libertarian approach to things underscores the significance of being wary about how individual rights and freedoms have come under increasing assault in recent years."
Oh I see, we're Bill Maher here now....Without the Jokes.
What I find "is" funny though is why this site supports cartel p2p's like Napster and ITunes when we're supposedly boycotting them at the same time?
Please somebody let me in on the quip! |
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PenisBrain
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Date: February 18, 2006 @ 11:41 AM
"Without free speech no search for truth is possible... no discovery of truth is useful... Better a thousandfold abuse of free speech than denial of free speech. The abuse dies in a day, but the denial slays the life of the people, and entombs the hope of the race." -Charles Bradlaugh
Censorship, The last refuge of a despot. |
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OldCodger
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Date: February 18, 2006 @ 11:51 AM
First, to finish addressing the main issue that this thread was intended for:
It would seem to be unproductive to berate the majority of computer users for not having a greater degree of proficiency. More realistic is the prospect of better prevention against various types of invasive malware.
In the case of memory-resident executables, one helpful suggestion mentioned by RaidHHI was the simple act of making it a habit to have autorun turned off. That's one rather simple adjustment worthy to be well-publicized.
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OldCodger
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Date: February 18, 2006 @ 12:02 PM
"Maintaining a libertarian approach to things underscores the significance of being wary about how individual rights and freedoms have come under increasing assault in recent years." — OldCodger
"Oh, I see, we're Bill Maher here now....Without the jokes." — Gadfly
Any similarity between my positions and those of others are purely incidental.
Or, would you prefer that I join you in your game to likewise choose a notable person to compare your positions with?
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Dreddsnik
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Date: February 18, 2006 @ 12:13 PM
"He can't "refute" it if the guys been banned...Which I believe he has been... "
He had a very long time to refute it.
Instead, he chose to do anything he could to aggravate our admin, rather than address the issue. Plenty of opportunities. He never had any intention of backing up his opinion.
That's why I say to new arrivals to this thread, Take the time to read the whole thread .
If he was banned, it was not for having different ideas, it was for shitting on the hosts floor. I believe that most readers that take the time to read the whole thread will come to that conclusion. |
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OldCodger
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Date: February 18, 2006 @ 12:16 PM
"What I find to be funny, though, is why this site supports cartel p2p's like Napster and ITunes when we're supposedly boycotting them at the same time?"
I can't really speak for Mike and other admins, but my perception is that this website advocates preserving the principle of freedom to share files if done legally. To that extent, most P2P networks have the potential for such. As examples: material that is in the public domain, AND, most importantly to us, instances of free downloads offered by independent musicians!
However, if a file-sharing network is devoted exclusively to cartel content (RIAA songs), then, indeed, Boycott-RIAA shouldn't be associated with supporting or patronizing that type of venture at all.
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Dreddsnik
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Date: February 18, 2006 @ 12:23 PM
His first post is on Feb 14 at 10:42 am. His last post is February 15, 12:28 PM.
He had a lot of time and opportunity.
He chose his path. |
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Dreddsnik
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Date: February 18, 2006 @ 12:28 PM
""What I find to be funny, though, is why this site supports cartel p2p's like Napster and ITunes when we're supposedly boycotting them at the same time?"
We don't support them, as far as I can tell. But I see no problem in taking their money to help us fight them :).
Money is the industry's primary weapon.
We are using their own weapon ( albeit in a small way ) against them.
"Art Of War " anyone ? |
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OldCodger
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Date: February 18, 2006 @ 12:35 PM
"Without free speech, no search for truth is possible...."
This is good stuff, and can fairly be rephrased to:
"Free speech makes the search for truth possible."
This principle can have other applications.
For example, the less committed to a specific political party, the more opportunity (freedom) you can have to seek and weigh both sides of an issue (without having predisposition to what would likely be favorable to your cherished party's position).
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OldCodger
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Date: February 18, 2006 @ 12:43 PM
"Without free speech, no search for truth is possible...."
— Charles Bradlaugh
The lack of an open mind impedes the search for truth.
— OldCodger
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OldCodger
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Date: February 18, 2006 @ 12:57 PM
I disagree with doing any kind of business with the enemy for the simple reason of an adverse perception (of hypocrisy) by visitors to this site that might result from such a practice.
I make this statement in full realization of it likely running counter to that of one or more administrators of this website.
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OldCodger
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Date: February 18, 2006 @ 1:36 PM
I mean, sponsorship notwithstanding, if I'm in charge of this website, I don't think I'd want to display any indication of mixed signals that could confuse newbies.
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Dreddsnik
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Date: February 18, 2006 @ 1:42 PM
"I disagree with doing any kind of business with the enemy for the simple reason of an adverse perception (of hypocrisy) by visitors to this site that might result from such a practice.
I make this statement in full realization of it likely running counter to that of one or more administrators of this website."
An absolutely fair assessment and opinion :) One that can be read viewed and respected, easily. |
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PenisBrain
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Date: February 18, 2006 @ 2:00 PM
Forget it guys the sham is for all to see ...You'll make deals with the cartel when it best benefits you all. You're all in bed with the media and it's apparent. The hypocrisy is clear and banning somebody, because in all honesty mad a jackass of you all is clear....Something I also have experience in doing.
Boycott-RIAA.com has today lost all credibility as far as I can see.
Thank you Little Napoleon! Bob Evans must be proud.. |
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PenisBrain
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Date: February 18, 2006 @ 2:02 PM
made a jackass of you that is....But you know how you all felt...I don't need to spell it out for you! |
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OldCodger
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Date: February 18, 2006 @ 2:36 PM
What is this "you all" stuff?
Oh, wait, I forgot! You're mostly at this website to criticize it, to show how it needs new leadersip, and to put certain people down (ostensibly to aggravate leflaw because of some stuff from the past that not many readers know about).
Go ahead and deny it; I wouldn't expect less.
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OldCodger
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Date: February 18, 2006 @ 2:45 PM
BTW, don't think you're the only one who knows about some of the stuff you ostensibly have hanging over leflaw's head.
(And I chose my words carefully.)
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Dreddsnik
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Date: February 18, 2006 @ 3:15 PM
Any newconsers to the thread ...
Take the time to read all of it :) |
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OldCodger
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Date: February 18, 2006 @ 3:44 PM
That's good advice.
History counts . . .
on this thread and all the original archives.
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PenisBrain
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Date: February 18, 2006 @ 3:58 PM
"Any newconsers to the thread ..."
Come on numbers are down on the threads...the sham is out....Boycott, thanks to it's support of Napster and Itunes has proven it's nothing but a lot of bullshit...No wonder nobody with sound mind could get this sinking ship afloat! |
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OldCodger
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Date: February 18, 2006 @ 5:18 PM
"Bob Evans must be proud."
You mean, Bill Evans?
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Dreddsnik
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Date: February 18, 2006 @ 5:26 PM
Any newcomers to the thread ...
Take the time to read all of it :)
"History counts . . .
on this thread and all the original archives. "
Amen.
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Dreddsnik
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Date: February 18, 2006 @ 5:26 PM
"Bob Evans must be proud."
You mean, Bill Evans? "
ROFL !!! |
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PenisBrain
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Date: February 18, 2006 @ 7:30 PM
"You mean, Bill Evans? "
ROFL !!!"
Nope, Had it right the first time because when it comes to putrefied pigmeat and those hiding the sausage, I right away think of you Dreddsnik.
Face it, the sites credibility is blown. No amount of sucking up on Dreddsnik part will change that. |
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PenisBrain
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Date: February 18, 2006 @ 7:31 PM
"No amount of sucking up on Dreddsnik part will change that."
My mistake, ment to say "going" down on his part! |
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Dreddsnik
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Date: February 18, 2006 @ 8:03 PM
LOL !!!
Good one.
"Any newcomers to the thread ...
Take the time to read all of it :)
"History counts . . .
on this thread and all the original archives. "
Amen. " |
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OldCodger
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Date: February 18, 2006 @ 8:12 PM
"In the open letter published Wednesday, EFF urges EMI Music to publicly declare that it will not take legal action against computer security researchers who study copy-protected CDs released by record labels owned by EMI."
Let's see, at the risk of functioning without the benefit of potentially more information about this development, how about diverting to an analogy . . . and, for that, we take you to a nearby middle school where an interesting interaction is about to begin between a frail six-grade boy and an over-sized eighth grader:
Apprehensive youngster in a sheepish voice, approaching towering schoolyard bully:
"I...I hope you won’t ever want to, to (shudder) HIT me, by any chance?"
Response from the bully: "Well, Well, HEY, you blubbering twerp, you punky little dweeb! I haven’t hit you before, homeboy, but...hmm, you know what . . . now that you mention it, maybe I OUGHT to . . . bwha-ha-ha-haaaaah!"
Apprehensive youngster: "Oh, please, say you won't?
Er, here, how about if I write that you WON'T on this piece of paper, and then. . . would you, uh, please sign it? Or, if not, would you PRETTY PLEASE go with me to the principal and, uh, TELL her that you WOULDN’T do something like hitting me?"
[Note: I'll let you as the reader visualize the rest of this decidedly unproductive scenario.
Doubtlessly, the bully considers himself in the driver's seat, so to speak. So, in his pragmatic mind, what incentive does he have to comply with the rather one-sided request of a weakling?
No offense, EFF, but how is this not tantamount to asking a superior entity to relinquish potential legal rights in advance?
Or, am I the only one that sees this tactic, at least on face value, as a form of non-negotiative begging?]
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OldCodger
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Date: February 19, 2006 @ 9:55 AM
On the other hand, perhaps EMI as a member of the powerful RIAA cartel, will voluntarily capitulate to the EFF and take pity on those computer security techologists who would have to violate a EULA in order to evaluate EMI’s copy protection schemes (i.e., to test the security issues pertaining to EMI’s DRM software).
Yeah, and maybe the schoolyard bully will agree to voluntarily go the principal and promise not to hit that boy.
Unless I lack salient information about this issue, I’ll have to say here and now that a better ploy would have been to gather evidence of how the RIAA (and by extension, their members, including EMI) have already violated EULAs of several file sharing networks in their crusades to amass specific data against infringers who uploaded copyrighted songs on P2P programs.
THEN, with that ammunition in hand, proceed (on the basis of strength), to approach EMI in a nogotiative stance, to get them to agree not to prosecute researchers for potential EULA violations when they examine EMI’s copy-protection schemes.
This method would seem to be more likely to bear fruit.
Of course, if the EFF can get one of the members of the formidable content cartel to unilaterally agree to something that could ultimately be considered a liability against itself (by having evidence revealed by researchers that users of certain EMI music CDs might be exposing those consumers’ computers to security risks) . . . well, then, I’ll be the first to say kudos to the EFF for pulling off a major hat trick. |
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OldCodger
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Date: February 19, 2006 @ 9:58 AM
I mean, who can tell, sometimes being wimpy gets good results!
:-)
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