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U.S. Department of Justice to prosecute p2p
Posted by leflaw on August 20, 2002 at 7:50 PM   (printer friendly)

http://news.com.com/2100-1023-954591.html?tag=fd_top

By Declan McCullagh
Staff Writer, CNET News.com
August 20, 2002, 2:27 PM PT


ASPEN, Colo.--The U.S. Department of Justice is prepared to begin prosecuting peer-to-peer pirates, a top government official said on Tuesday.

John Malcolm, a deputy assistant attorney general, said Americans should realize that swapping illicit copies of music and movies is a criminal offense that can result in lengthy prison terms.

"A lot of people think these activities are legal, and they think they ought to be legal," Malcolm told an audience at the Progress and Freedom Foundation’s annual technology and politics summit.

Malcolm said the Internet has become "the world's largest copy machine" and that criminal prosecutions of copyright offenders are now necessary to preserve the viability of America's content industries. "There does have to be some kind of a public message that stealing is stealing is stealing," said Malcolm, who oversees the arm of the Justice Department that prosecutes copyright and computer crime cases.

In an interview, Malcolm would not say when prosecutions would begin. The response to the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks temporarily diverted the department's resources and prevented its attorneys from focusing on this earlier, he said.

A few weeks ago, some of the most senior members of Congress pressured the Justice Department to invoke a little-known law, the No Electronic Theft (NET) Act, against peer-to-peer users who swap files without permission.

Under the NET Act, signed by President Clinton in 1997, it is a federal crime to share copies of copyrighted products such as software, movies or music with anyone, even friends or family members, if the value of the work exceeds $1,000. Violations are punishable by one year in prison, or if the value tops $2,500, "not more than five years" in prison.

Cary Sherman, president of the Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA), said his industry would "welcome" prosecutions that send a message to song-swappers.

"Some prosecutions that make that clear could be very helpful...I think they would think twice if they thought there was a risk of criminal prosecution," said Sherman, who was on the same conference panel.

Christopher Cookson, executive vice president of Warner Bros. and another panelist, said there was "a need for governments to step in and maintain order in society."

Swapping files in violation of the law has always been a civil offense, and the RIAA and the Motion Picture Association of America (MPAA) have the option of suing individual infringers and seeking damages.

But, Malcolm said, criminal prosecutions can be much more effective in intimidating file-swappers who have little assets at risk in a civil suit. "Civil remedies are not adequate...Law enforcement in that regard does have several advantages," Malcolm said. "We have the advantage, when appropriate, of opening up and conducting multi-jurisdictional and international investigations.

"Most parents would be horrified if they walked into a child's room and found 100 stolen CDs...However, these same parents think nothing of having their children spend time online downloading hundreds of songs without paying a dime."

Gary Shapiro, president of the Consumer Electronics Association, said he was skeptical about the view that peer-to-peer piracy should be a criminal offense. "If we have 70 million people in the United States who are breaking the law, we have a big issue."

The DOJ already has used the NET Act to imprison noncommercial software pirates, which software lobbyists hailed as "an important component of the overall effort to prevent software theft."

During his confirmation hearing in June 2001, Attorney General John Ashcroft told Congress that "given the fact that much of America's strength in the world economy is a result of our being the developer and promoter of most of the valuable software, we cannot allow the assets that are held electronically to be pirated or infringed. And so we will make a priority of cybercrime issues."

The letter from Congress complains of "a staggering increase in the amount of intellectual property pirated over the Internet through peer-to-peer systems." Signed by 19 members of Congress, including Sen. Joseph Biden, D-Del., Rep. James Sensenbrenner, R-Wis., and Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Ca., the letter urged Ashcroft "to prosecute individuals who intentionally allow mass copying from their computer over peer-to-peer networks."


User Comments (These do not necessarily reflect the beliefs of this site)

pog  
Date: August 20, 2002 @ 8:14 PM
Well, I guess it was bound to happen. If you can't stop the p2p software being distributed, someones gonna try making examples of unlucky users as a form of revinue raiser. Amazing, corperate, how much can we make ppl hate us mantality...

pog  
Date: August 20, 2002 @ 8:15 PM
errm... mentality... :blush:

Mediamaster  
Date: August 20, 2002 @ 8:35 PM
hhhhhmmmmmm?

s**t

Hail Mp3!!

Mediamaster  
Date: August 20, 2002 @ 8:39 PM
Sorry, just a little mad. There are a little points to the descision I don't get. What about fair use. Don't people have a right to download a song they already have? Plus, legaly don't I have to open the file before it becomes criminal? What about people off shore?
Will there still be enough to keep p2p alive?

Mediamaster  
Date: August 20, 2002 @ 8:43 PM
The war has begun. Even if the RIAA shuts down p2p I still believe they will lose. I hope new technology can help combat this. The EFF is our frontline and the consumers behind them.

Remember Napster!!!!!

mp3manlou  
Date: August 20, 2002 @ 8:49 PM
well, its official. any old idiot can be elected for congress. by signing that, you have proved you are an idiot. this may be the end to p2p as we know it. a few people will be arrested, and we will have no people on gnutella anymore. it makes me sad to think about it, and mad to know that we have people like this running our country.

thumbtack  
Date: August 20, 2002 @ 8:58 PM
The entertainment industry contributed more than $38 million to federal candidates and parties in 1999-2000, a $20 million increase over its giving in the 1996 election cycle.(source Opensecrets.org)

See the story here on DMusic http://news.dmusic.com/article/5243 about how much money these 19 Congress Critters received from Hollyweird and the RIAA.

forrix  
Date: August 20, 2002 @ 9:33 PM
bah, humbug.
i have faith that the new technologies i read about (can't remember the official names or terms - the ones that transfer your signal from server to server to server anonymously) will make it prohibitively expensive for them to track down users. true, most users aren't using that now, but a move like this will only speed its emergence.

debart  
Date: August 20, 2002 @ 9:41 PM
Well, it just means that people on p2p networks will have to share smaller amounts of files, and rotate the items in their shared folders on an irregular basis. As is stated in the above paragraph...

Under the NET Act, signed by President Clinton in 1997, it is a federal crime to share copies of copyrighted products such as software, movies or music with anyone, even friends or family members, if the value of the work exceeds $1,000. Violations are punishable by one year in prison, or if the value tops $2,500, "not more than five years" in prison.

Yeah, it's called 'grand theft' and at that point, it's felonious.

$1000 dollars is an awful lot of songs (the average CD has what maybe, 13 songs on it, divided by a 16 dollar pricetag. What's the math on that?) or software.

Deb.

pressf8  
Date: August 20, 2002 @ 9:58 PM
does anyone share a singular piece of content worth $1000? The way I read that, all your songs are worth way less than $1K, so you should be under the line. Maybe if you transferred 100 CDs to a single person in a short amount of time--but a song to several people? Probably not $1000 worth...

Jprime  
Date: August 21, 2002 @ 6:25 AM
Everyone knew it was bound to happen but I feel sorry for the people who will be held as an example by being charged. I live in Canada so I could be charged as well. They can't charge us all so lets see how long it takes before they get tired out. I thought it was only illegal if you made a profit off the coppies. I don't think it is illegal if you give a free copy to a 1000 friends.

Jprime  
Date: August 21, 2002 @ 6:39 AM
If you download software and movies like me then you should just burn them to cd's more often. If you are caught just reformat you hard drive all the files will be gone but then they would have no proof.

Svensta  
Date: August 21, 2002 @ 6:53 AM
Government needs to step in... heheh, that's not going to happen very easily, millions in lobbying or no. I hate that they are pushing all these laws through, but I have 5 good sturdy pre-DCMA and TC...(I dunno the acronym, Trusted Computing something-or-other) machines so I will be set for another 5-6 years. I will be back on IRC and FTP in no time should it come to that. There seems to be a new groundswell of newsgroup users too, yaaaaay. We did this before p2p and will continue. If it comes to that, I will start teaching teens how to use IRC. They are the target market after all.

BTW, JPrime, you need a data eraser to write zeros to the disk to avoid data retrieval legally speaking. You reformat and they seize yoru drives, they will get the files off it ANYWAY, easy as pie. Find free ones on download.com It takes about 15 minutes a gig on an average machine but it's WORTH it, as it's COMPLETELY erased.

iH8RIAA  
Date: August 21, 2002 @ 9:10 AM
Tee Hee Hee... i have a secret weapon used on IRC channels for a long LONG time... THE INTERNET PRIVACY LAWS! They cant arrest me because any info retrived from a personal computer is considered private data that cannot be used in court. So, datasniffers whom attempt to find people to arrest and jail cannot do such without any evidence, and evidence gained thru a private computer is considered to be unusable in court! Tee hee hee!

Spica  
Date: August 21, 2002 @ 9:15 AM
let's get some weapons and waste the whole fucking Justice Department. They can't do anything right these days.
come on, i'll supply the liquified Chlorine gas.

Big250  
Date: August 21, 2002 @ 9:25 AM
How exactly are they going to track down individual users to make examples of?

NeoFlash  
Date: August 21, 2002 @ 10:49 AM
one way that might hinder them knowing how much its worth is if shareaza and winmx and kazaa and grokster took these stupid ass "browse user's files" options out, which is just helping. hopefully the riaa runs out of bribe money and than congress will get its head out of its ass and get a tank to shoot all riaa buildings.

spikester  
Date: August 21, 2002 @ 11:00 AM
another fine example of how the american goverment is ruining the internet. of all the real crime the US has, but they have to go after file sharing instead. i feel sorry for the US citizens that they have fools running the country that can be bought so easily, yet theres so much murder and violent crimes. so many 'innocent' people are already thrown in jail over drugs, and now its going to be peer 2 peer users. people that wouldnt harm anyone. quite sad really that the US has beecome the United Corperations of America...

Spica  
Date: August 21, 2002 @ 11:16 AM
my heart fills with great shame for our government.
these are not the people i want to represent me.
furthermore, i think the situation inthis country warrants an armed revolution.
if only the majority of us werent such cowards and would be willing to put their lives ont he line for freedom of speech and information exchange.

"Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave" - yeah right, LIKE HELL
dammit, thats the country where people fucking FOUGHT and fucking DIED for some dumb 2-cent tax on tea!!!

NeoFlash  
Date: August 21, 2002 @ 11:31 AM
that was at the time when people thought that this country would be good, but it slowly turned bad. first slavery and prejudice, than idiots in office, than the riaa.

NeoFlash  
Date: August 21, 2002 @ 11:32 AM
but still, what is the alternative to america? most other countries dont even have computers. and if they do, they must be 486s tops.

hrrglburf  
Date: August 21, 2002 @ 11:40 AM
Ha! Good, its about time they did this. We all know the truth, and the truth we don't like, we may download songs we have on cd, but that doesn't stop us from getting others, so don't even say that B.S. You all know it is a pirates heaven. You will all make stupid excuses, and look up invalid facts and instantly believe them because you want to. The fact that p2p is being attacked is because everyone is pirateering, I have NEVER, EVER, heard of a good hearted soul using P2P JUST for the songs they have ALREADY PURCHASED. If you wanted those so bad you could just rip your CD and you know it, not download it. I'm happy for them. And I'm sorry if you pirates can't get your digital porn, free ebooks, or cracked software anymore. Learn to face the reality of the situation. Seriously people, we're all theifs, but just because we all are doesn't make it the right thing to do. Good Luck US Dep. of Justice!

Spica  
Date: August 21, 2002 @ 11:42 AM
hrrglburf, you work for the RIAA, and you are a retard who will never be of any use to humanity.

hrrglburf  
Date: August 21, 2002 @ 11:46 AM
Great commentary, very mature. I like the insult. Grow up, how old are you? 13? You should know better. The last thing we need is idiots like you running this country. Yes everyone! make it legal to pirate! ruin software companies, ruin music carreers! But who cares, because we all believe in free work. Because developers and singers should get paid nothing for what they do! Go free America. YEAH RIGHT! wake up and smell the coffee. Dumbass.

Spica  
Date: August 21, 2002 @ 11:48 AM
developers and singers should be paid for the time they are physically developing/singing.
their software/music in itself is neither a product nor a service.
you fucking Republican brainless retard.

Spica  
Date: August 21, 2002 @ 11:49 AM
and yeah, i dont care what the fall of recording and software companies will do to the economy and tax revenues.

i am willing to cut back on my consumtion for a while.

Spica  
Date: August 21, 2002 @ 11:52 AM
we will come after people like you, and your families, with good old steel and lead.
let's see how your fat ass will defend itself when 70 million people are doing everything they can to erase you from existence.

smelv1n  
Date: August 21, 2002 @ 11:54 AM
my friend just showed me the wonderful world of newsgroups yesterday, so fast and so free.

i get a free subscription with my cable provider, so i just log in and download away! Got madden 2003 in less than an hour, but my brother is taking his computer away so i won't even bother unzipping it :(

mp3manlou  
Date: August 21, 2002 @ 11:58 AM
hrrglburf, youre rite. pirating is wrong. but that is if you dont own the rights to do it. if i paid 3-5 $ for the cd, i wouldnt have those rights. but when i pay 15$ for a cd with 1-3 good songs, i have the rite to copy it. something thata expensive gives mee the rite to copy it. and until a cd is 5$ or less, i will never buy a cd. the riaa has screwed us out of money by promoting these talentless artists and making us buy 15$ crap. and there are only a few good songs on it. good. i hope the riaa loses money and dies! and i am 13 you piece of shit riaa spy!!! look at the thread macs rule, i think i said everything there more maturely than you ever will. and spica is in college, so please, shutup, noone wants an asshole from the rampid idiots association of america on this website anyway.

hrrglburf  
Date: August 21, 2002 @ 11:59 AM
In fact, why don't you go working at your job in burger king for free? that would be good. Fucking teenagers, you think you all know how the world works. I give up on you. Brainless shit. I feel sorry for your poor self. What are you going to do? Hack my computer? I bet your a script kiddie to. Ha... silly silly boy.

hrrglburf  
Date: August 21, 2002 @ 12:05 PM
mp3manlou, you are correct entirely. You have a perfect right to buy the CD and make yourself copies, I don't blame you for that. At All. Its when you start giving away those songs for free when they should be purchased, is when it becomes wrong. Same with software.

mp3manlou  
Date: August 21, 2002 @ 12:07 PM
Hey, riaa spy asshole: I'm not like other teenagers: other teens are moronic and are spoiled idiots. I have a 160 iq, and intend to use it. I am not the average teenager. If I need to, I'll show something that proves that congress didn't ever agree with the RIAA.

Spica  
Date: August 21, 2002 @ 12:08 PM

(a) iam not a teenager
(b) i am a professional engineer
(c) i do not think breaking your computer would accomplish much, since computers are actually useful to mankind, more useful than you.

Spica  
Date: August 21, 2002 @ 12:09 PM
(d) and hrrglburf, i certainly don't care if Britney Spears or similar human garbage suddenly quit their music career when they stop getting paid.

mp3manlou  
Date: August 21, 2002 @ 12:10 PM
And it is a crime if if I give the pirated works away for personal gain or profit: not for free. Nothing ever said about for free. I would explain it here, but read the first post of my thread at:

http://www.gnutella.com/forums/general/651

hrrglburf  
Date: August 21, 2002 @ 12:11 PM
I would say they are going about this in the wrong way, but you have to ask, what else would they do? The RIAA has tried suing all of the P2P companies but they keep springing up. They have to do something. If you work at a small business software company you would really see the effects of piracy, and that is what's annoying. Piracy does ruin lives, believe it or not, because when those business end, people lose jobs, and when people lose jobs, people don't get money, and when people don't get money... well you know.

mp3manlou  
Date: August 21, 2002 @ 12:12 PM
i for one hope that britney spears stops. being a user of gnutella, i know the "OTHER" things she does for money except music, and thats why people like her.

mp3manlou  
Date: August 21, 2002 @ 12:14 PM
but thats the point!!! the riaa should go out of business, jobs should be lost!!!! they are rich!!! all they do is take the music we love and overprice it!! zdnet said that they will try to put copyright chips in computers!!!! they are trying to stop vcrs, damn it!!! they are rich, it doesnt matter if they lose a little money!

Spica  
Date: August 21, 2002 @ 12:16 PM
hrrglburf, you disgusting fuck, you are just repeating all the shit from the RIAA website!

Any teenager working for BurgerKing has done more for our species than any given musician or actor! It's disgusting useless fucks like you that consume our planetary resources by pushing this stupid noise fro real money!
Your moral level is below that of a Colombian drug traffiker!

Spica  
Date: August 21, 2002 @ 12:18 PM
and yes, all the people who are making money from music CD sales SHOULD lose their jobs!
they can go and work at the BurgerKing, for all I care.

macwhee  
Date: August 21, 2002 @ 12:50 PM
Hos got to eat, too...
What I resent is the carrion feeders in the industry who do nothing for a living and make 98% of the money. I refuse to line their pockets. I have purchased 75-80 percent of what I have digitized, but will buy no more forever.BOYCOTT!
Hell, you can still pull stuff from the Radio if everything else goes south...hmm of course they will want to start charging for that eventually...ie the satellite Radio deal.
Wonder where it will end? does the rapaciousness know no bounds? stay Tuned!

HrrIsAcow  
Date: August 21, 2002 @ 1:18 PM
The World is doomed, because of peoples like hrrglburf. He wants to fart in 2002, and still be paid in 3044

hrrglburf  
Date: August 21, 2002 @ 1:32 PM
You people are useless and weak minded. I will not check this site again. It is impossible to deal with stupid mindless fucks. You who think that stealing is okay. I'll do my best to support the US Justice Dep. in this movement. Have fun kiddies! You want more money, get a better job, go get one? You can't? oh I'm sorry. Let us all get paid the same, let us all be communists! Fucking retards, all of you. Enjoy it while it lasts cause it won't last long. Toodles!

Spica  
Date: August 21, 2002 @ 1:45 PM
good thing the RIAA retard is finally gone. phew. :)
nobody here said we all should be paid the same; all that was said here is that certain (most) people in the music industry should be paid NOTHING.
there will still be food, clothes, cars, computers and airplans, as before.
there will just be no more 20-dollar-CDs.
And no fat bitches named Hilary Rosen.

mp3manlou  
Date: August 21, 2002 @ 1:48 PM
and the world would be happy.

crawdd  
Date: August 21, 2002 @ 2:28 PM
The best way to stop this, and I hate to say this, is to vote bush the hell out of the white house. When he goes, these DoJ morons will go with him, and hopefully we'll get a saner attorney general. John Asscroft is a menace, and we need to get rid of him ASAP.

ChillinBuzz  
Date: August 21, 2002 @ 2:33 PM
Just remember which came first: The unacceptable price rise or the pirating issue????

Fighting fire with fire. When no-one listens we fight for what we believe in. Yes, many of us are 'pirates' in some people's eyes. And you change their minds. The stubborn pre-digital era of thinking will always be there with some of them.

Now we are criminals according to you then, hrrglburf. You don't consider what your chummy record label friends do is actually moral itself? Then you must have more money than sense.

crawdd  
Date: August 21, 2002 @ 2:35 PM
Someone needs to write a secure gnutella client that won't let anyone see a list of all files you have. If anyone who programs a client reads this, I'd highly recommend putting that as a feature in your next version, I assure you that many people would flock to your service if you did.

Maffew  
Date: August 21, 2002 @ 2:37 PM
Spica: "Any teenager working for BurgerKing has done more for our species than any given musician or actor!"

Yet you fight so hard to be able to download the work of these musicians and actors. If you don't value what they do, why do you download their music?

mp3manlou: "but thats the point!!! the riaa should go out of business, jobs should be lost!!!! they are rich!!! all they do is take the music we love and overprice it!! zdnet said that they will try to put copyright chips in computers!!!! they are trying to stop vcrs, damn it!!! they are rich, it doesnt matter if they lose a little money!"

I believe hrrglburf's point was not that you're going to put the RIAA out of buisness, but that you are going to put the small time software developers out of buisness. That's been my experience, it doesn't hurt the rich people who are making music/movies/software nearly as much as it hurts those who are trying to get their foot in the door.

mp3manlou: "...but when i pay 15$ for a cd with 1-3 good songs, i have the rite to copy it."

Well, this gets into a discussion of fair-use. Maybe you see it that way, but in the eyes of the law you don't have that right. When you purchase software, you do not become the owner of the copyright. Rather, you are purchasing the right to use the software under certain restrictions imposed by the copyright owner, typically the software publisher. The precise rules are described in the documentation accompanying the software -- the license. It is imperative that you understand and adhere to these rules. Most often, they state that you have the right to load the software onto a single computer and make one backup copy. If you copy, distribute or install the software in ways that the license prohibits, whether you are swapping disks with friends and coworkers or participating in widespread duplication, you are violating federal copyright law. Even if you only help someone else make unauthorized copies, you are still liable under the copyright law.

And once again, as I've told Spwee in other forums, if you think this is wrong, fine... if you think breaking the law is the way to go about changing it, fine... I disagree.

On a side note: there are many sofware programs that are valued at greater than $1000... 3d Studio Max (not that hard to get a hold of) for one... and there are many that are in the realm of hundreds of dollars.


NeoFlash  
Date: August 21, 2002 @ 2:46 PM
how the hell does gnutella hurt software developers. thats bs. and spica works so hard to keep gnutella afloat so other people can download music and that will destroy the riaa. once the riaa is destroyed, all of the artists that depend on them die. and i use gnutella mostly for movies and sitcoms. and crawdd, i said the same fucking thing you said in the 17th post on this thread, so get your own ideas!!!

NeoFlash  
Date: August 21, 2002 @ 2:52 PM
neo=the ideas and computer savviness and thoughts to bring p2p back to a legal state and kill the riaa. flash= the ability to come up with these ideas quickly and put them into words and actions. neo+flash= THE ULTIMATE PERSON TO BRING P2P UP AND THE RIAA DOWN!!!

Spica  
Date: August 21, 2002 @ 2:56 PM
note: hrrglburf and Maffew are likely the same moron.

Maffew: why i download them? Because they are FREE, MAN!!
and these things need to remain free, so that the RIAA and MPAA keep bleeding money.

also, just because i LIKE something, doesn't mean i can't wish to DESTROY it.

keep this in mind, next time you post any of this "...then why do you..."-bullshit.

and turns out, the best software is FREE;
free like Linux,
free like Winamp,
free like IrfanView,
...
free like Gnucleus and Shareaza

how you like them bananas, dumb RIAA minion?

Maffew  
Date: August 21, 2002 @ 3:02 PM
NeoFlash:"how the hell does gnutella hurt software developers?"

Well, when fewer and fewer people pay for their software and they have no money coming in... it kinda makes it difficult to continue. You deprive them of their intellectual property. In addition you by not rewarding them for work done, it stifles future creativity.

"In 2000, the United States suffered a staggering 118,000 job losses, $5.6 billion in lost wages and $1.6 billion in lost tax revenue due to pirated software." - BSA

(I know that is not all Gnutella.)

Gnutella itself doesn't hurt software developers, it's the misuse of Gnutella.

Maffew  
Date: August 21, 2002 @ 3:05 PM
Spica:"note: hrrglburf and Maffew are likely the same moron."

Uh... not so much, Spica... you'd probably like to think that there are only a few of us out there, but you're wrong. It would have be intuitively obvious to the most casual observer that we are not the same person. I rarely choose to cuss or insult as hrrglburf (or the rest of you for that matter). I am more interested in getting what I have to say out there and trying to learn and expand on it through everyone elses opinion.

Maffew  
Date: August 21, 2002 @ 3:11 PM
Spica:"and turns out, the best software is FREE;
free like Linux,
free like Winamp,
free like IrfanView,
...
free like Gnucleus and Shareaza"

This is true, there are very good free software programs out there. However, there are a lot of really good programs that do not have free counter parts:

Adobe Photoshop,
3d Studio MAX,
Pro/E,
...goes on and on.

I don't see how some programs being free means all programs should be... that is the choice of the creator, it's his/her intellectual property.

Maffew  
Date: August 21, 2002 @ 3:13 PM
Spica:"also, just because i LIKE something, doesn't mean i can't wish to DESTROY it."

Why do you want to destroy something you like?

crawdd  
Date: August 21, 2002 @ 3:19 PM
skywalker1774: I hope you realize that no one at all is going to do your scheme there.

Maffew  
Date: August 21, 2002 @ 3:23 PM
Oh, and now we know who the real dumbass is... thank you skywalker1774

mp3manlou  
Date: August 21, 2002 @ 3:35 PM
oh my god!!! not this too!!! jeez, look at the war threads, it conjests even my dsl!!!

mp3manlou  
Date: August 21, 2002 @ 3:35 PM
spam......too..strong.must........ignore!!!

NeoFlash  
Date: August 21, 2002 @ 5:09 PM
ok spica, we get the idea. its my turn now!

Mediamaster  
Date: August 21, 2002 @ 7:22 PM
Amen to that Spica!

Mp3 lives on!!

Hail Mp3!!!

Jprime  
Date: August 21, 2002 @ 8:01 PM
The average amount of songs went from 18 to 10 and the prices went up. Why pay $15 for the CD when the artists get nothing. As for software the best is free like Opera or Linux. If there is reasonably priced software I'll buy it but to pay over $100 is way to much. If software was reasonable priced people would buy it. As for Maffew and hrrglburf no one is going to change there minds because of your stupid treads. So just go away to RIAA pawns and go bug someone else.

NeoFlash  
Date: August 21, 2002 @ 8:29 PM
cool, the website filtered out skywalker's spam!!!

captainclorox  
Date: August 21, 2002 @ 9:17 PM
My troll detector's going off, but maybe Maffew and the other guy really do believe that breaking the law (whether it's really a violation or not), isn't the way to go about changing something.

Rosa Parks broke the law back in 1955 when she refused to give up her bus seat to a white guy, and a lot of people today would agree that the change which came about from that act of civil disobedience was positive. We music lovers do not care for the arrogance and stupidity of the RIAA/MPAA and we refuse to let them treat us as criminals for discovering new music in our own way. We break the law and don't think twice about it when we discover good new music without having to buy an $18 CD. Passing laws and initiating lawsuits to keep a defunct business model afloat for another few months won't work very well in the long run. As for depriving the artists, let me assure you that the RIAA deprives the artists more than a million fans downloading a new song ever could.

You argue that swapping the works of creators stifles future creativity by not rewarding the work done. Guess what? I'd rather get my foot in the door by letting everyone freely download the music I create and choose whether or not they wish to support my music with money. If not, fine. If so, cool! Someone who sees a Tricia Conception album in a store isn't likely to try it out if they've never heard of her, but if they hear an MP3 they downloaded for free and like it, the chances of her making a sale is a helluva lot greater.

Go ahead and believe that P2P is bad for the industry. They said the same thing about cassette tapes and VCRs.

shoshidge  
Date: August 21, 2002 @ 9:28 PM
So, if a guy has an unpopular opinion around here he's a republican, a retard, in bed with the RIAA or worse...
Hmmm. I know we're all venting here and that most of us are arrogant punks who have yet to appreciate the art of objective thinking and mature debate, but I'd like to point a few things out.
Just because something benefits you personally doesn't make it right, understanding that concept seperates the grown-ups from the snivelling teenagers.
As much as you might dissagree with Bush and Republicans, they have nothing to do with this, if Nader himself was president the RIAA would still be following the same misguided path.
And Spica, on behalf of musicians and artists everywhere who might take offence to your assertion that we are worth less than a burger flipper at Burger King, here is a humble curse...

May your shit come alive and kiss you on the lips.

You probably were just trying to be provocative, as appreciation for the arts is one of the things that seperate the intelligent from the truly stupid.
Burger King is the living example of the sort of corporation that we should all hate and those that work there should be looked upon with sympathy.
True art is the antithesis of the corporate mentality, if it wasn't for art, there would be no culture and we would be living in a depressing, grey world.
So ignore the curse if your true opinions differ.

shoshidge  
Date: August 21, 2002 @ 9:36 PM
Please don't let your hatred of the RIAA contaminate your respect for good musicians, most of them consider a record contract to be a necessary evil and would love it if someone came up with a better way for them to distribute their music.
As for the not-so-good musicians...

NeoFlash  
Date: August 21, 2002 @ 9:59 PM
i agree with shoshidge all the way

SinfulPro  
Date: August 21, 2002 @ 10:22 PM
Malcolm said the Internet has become "the world's largest copy machine" and that criminal prosecutions of copyright offenders are now necessary to preserve the viability of America's content industries. "There does have to be some kind of a public message that stealing is stealing is stealing,"


I can and should be able to take a picture of the Washington monument and take it home even though it's not mine, even print that picture or post it any where I like, home or Internet. I can copy a page of a book and it's not criminal, or record a part of a song from anywhere, being a movie or CD and make a WAV file of it, a cassette or a video of music, (like i can't make a cassette from a vinyl, please)

We have the freedom to use what ever technology we have in our homes and just about do what we like with it, I can listen to a radio commercial and record it, loop it and re use it on a hit song, has samplers killed off the musicians and their instruments like it was once thought? Shiet, even the best drum machine can't replace a drummer.

"the largest copy machine", too bad it don't print out 100 dollar bills!!!!

I still ask, why isn't the music industry putting out their music libraries on the net using their own mp3 files, make them mono or something that would make them imperfect, maybe a few audio "hiccups" or audio "pops" here and there, that will make the incentive to go out and buy the CD because you really like that song and artist.

the solution is to fight fire with fire, simply make the music available to the Internet users as easy at it is with peer too peer, leave their computers alone, and the music profits will be coming to the copyright holders, though i tell you something, there will still be that "bootleg" industry, it always has and always will, you just can't stop the criminal from making them and selling them in mass quantities, but legislation don't have to send people to jail for listening to an mp3 file on their car stereo on a routine traffic stop.

Legislation needs to protect the freaking people for once, make a freaking stand t this companies, GOD! They are ready to follow their command once again.

I mean, the legislation is so against the people man, it's simply ridiculous, they are ready to send people to jail instead of making this corporate CROOKS with their license to steal, rob and rape, to leave the Internet alone, and if they are so worried; why can they figure out a way to make it work?

This is because of the people they have running the riaa and other agencies, this people are of older age and completely a part from technology, progressive and fee thinking. I can't wait till this "baby boomers" retire already so the world can be free of it's myths, wars, laws and let downs. they can make room to the new generation, after all, as many of these dumb fucks as there is, we need to start figuring a way to get us out of this mess they got the world, the economy and how to support them and our self's in the future.

Some people just can't make the right choice and when they make a choice, they become bad decision makers too, and the legislative branch of our democracy will be manipulated and raped over and over again by the mighty dollar and it's vote purchasing power, "gotta have money to buy them votes" ;)

so the quote: "There does have to be some kind of a public message that stealing is stealing is stealing,"

Why don't you ask your self that. But I say the negligence of the music industry to put the music on the Internet by them self's is their own fault and should not become my fault and most definitely not my crime.

Isomer  
Date: August 21, 2002 @ 10:43 PM
Lots of interesting arguments here. I'm glad I missed the spam.

Here's why I use/have used p2p programs.

I download software, and music. Most of the music that I have right now is either so old that the artist is dead (and thus not getting paid for it anyway), or the music is techno, which until very recently was unavailable through any other means (except going to raves, something I'm not that interested in.) As to the softwre it falls into one of 2 groups, either it's M$ crap that I MUST use (but cant afford) or it's a game which if i like I go out and buy, if i don't I get rid of it and good ridance.

If it was a financial possibility I'd get rid of all the M$ software that has ever touched my computers, and switch to all open source. I believe that Microsoft has long used deplorable marketing stratagies. And I am the victim of one of those. I have a "WinModem" and use dialup for internet access, because of M$ practices, acceptable drivers cannot be generated for Linux for my modem. As to why I download (and thus pirate, yes I will use the word, because I know that it is illegal) the software, that is very simple. The legal stuff costs TOO MUCH! I am UNWILLING to pay $200 (and better) for a buggy, shitty, program which just a marginal improvement over the last releae in the family. With the definate possibility that not all the identified bugs will be fixed. Why would i want to give my hard earned money to a person (Bill Gates, since god knows that the programmers at M$ don't get paid enough, he has so much money), who could buy my entire LIFE and not even notice the moneys gone?

I am perfectly accepting of paying people for their work, believe me I am. If there's a musician at a concert or something, and I like them, and they don't have a big name record label, I'll pay them for their CD, 'cause I know the oney is going to them.

Musicians need to realise the potential of the Internet. And so do programmers.

crawdd  
Date: August 22, 2002 @ 4:29 AM
And for the record, I still think they're just gonna go after software pirates (as opposed to music.) opposing warez has been a goal of this misguided administration since before 9/11.

hrrglburf  
Date: August 22, 2002 @ 8:39 AM
You want understanding? Read all of this>>

It's still stealing. Stealing is wrong. If you can't pay for that unhealthy looking candybar, you can't have it. But you can, perhaps, stick it in your pocket and get away with it without getting caught. But why? WHY? Would you want the unhealthy candybar so badly you need to steal it? Hmm? If it looks so nasty why?
The fact is: when so many people steal software instead of buying it, businesses lose money. I'm not talking about those big corporate giants out there that you all hate, I'm talking about all those companies you think are so great and rich, that you think it is for some reason OK to steal from. Businesses like JASC, Macromedia, Alienware, NeoWorx, Vital, TechExcel... the list goes on and on. All of them are not as big and rich as you may like to think (possibly to ease your conscience?). It is mean, and cruel to steal their software. They put hard work and money into these projects and then 80% of the population decides to take it for free right under their noses. All those developers and small-medium sized businesses, who are real people just trying to make some money like me or you, are getting ripped off. This is unfair. And it erks me a little whenever I see someone talking about it. And no matter how right you think it is. It's not. Yes there are other ways to go about it. But just taking a product because you can't pay for it is wrong. I'm sure everyones good parents told them that "even though someone does something wrong, doesn't mean it's ok for you do the same". That goes for You All vs Big Bad Corporates as well.
I think P2P is a great revolutionary idea, but we have to look at the facts, that businesses (maybe not those huge ones, well, yes even those) are losing revenue, and a lot of it is from piracy (or you could say the invention of P2P). Piracy has grown extensively with the invention of P2P. If you are a developer looking to make some money, you'll know as much as I do you spend a good part of the time trying to figure out a way to make your software harder and harder to be cracked or copied. Why would we want to make it easy? Certainly not so the population can give it away or illegally copy it easier. Try and think of this from our point of view. If you guys find a way for us to earn revenue from stolen copies (of software that is so buggy and bad, but you want anyway) by means of P2P, that is just fine. Like I said, we are all out there looking to make some money. Some of us choose sports, some choose foods, some choose business, we are all different. But ripping off one another is not good.
Everyone including other businesses frown on bad business practices. If you feel you are getting ripped off, there is more than one way to complain, which are all totally legal. By fighting "fire with fire" you are only making the battle longer, because as we all know, fire doesn't kill fire.

I urge you, if you are open minded, just put yourselves in the shoes of developers and business people, and see what would you do?

Spica  
Date: August 22, 2002 @ 9:11 AM
first of all, a candybar, no matter how unhealthy, is still a tangible good.
Music and sofware are neither Goods nor are they Services. They are like sunlight, once they exist, they can be freely used by all.

hrrglburf, I know from personal experience what it is like to be a software developer, and as a qualified person and programmer, I am telling you that software does not cost as much as it is being sold for.
I support p2p all the way, for it will help to destroy parasitic industries, like entertainment and big software companies. i am willing to sacrifice those few "small" software businesses.


I see you RIAA bitch have consulted your psych and PR advisers before you returned.
Well, you will not find any more support here now than you did before.
The only people who are really hurt by p2p are RIAA and MPAA. they are parasitic, useless industries that usually even find ways not to pay taxes formt heir hypersized profit margins.

limeflame878  
Date: August 22, 2002 @ 9:18 AM
This episode can be compared to an act of banning tobacco and alcohal. If the U.S. Goverment was to do so, what would happen? Well plentiful riots would break out as our country turned 100's of millions of people into crazed lunitics bent on getting their smokes back! They would go absolutely crazy! They'd be turning everyone into criminals who smoked and drank. Stupid idea? Yes. Thats why we don't have 90% of America rotting in prison at this time.

So when you look at it this way, the RIAA is trying to turn the great citizens of America into criminals because they enjoy music and are boosting there own sales! So what makes these guys think that THIS time its ok to dismiss 90% of America as criminals? I'm also very sure that they would not have the time to prosecute millions of people. Let alone trying to fit them all in the U.S. jail system. Good Luck! Massive riots would break out in this situation too so what you've got to ask yourself is 'Do I want to spend the rest of my years in prison because I like music?' then you have to envision America: dead empty and see why we didn't ban alcohal and tobacco and see why we shouldn't ban p2p.

hrrglburf  
Date: August 22, 2002 @ 9:18 AM
I'm sorry you think that way Spica. I hope the rest of you will realize the reality of the situation.

Spica  
Date: August 22, 2002 @ 9:27 AM
yes, the rest of us realize the "reality of the situation", as you can see.
that is why we are preparing for some physical action against the RIAA members and their families.

hrrglburf  
Date: August 22, 2002 @ 9:29 AM
wow, now you're talking. Lets start killing and harming people physically! Becuase we are anarchy! Wow... are the rest of you reading this? This guy's quite insane.

hrrglburf  
Date: August 22, 2002 @ 9:31 AM
Obviously there is no reason with those who wish to harm human beings. There is always a rational way to fight things, and those that choose to use violence are those that lack the intelligence to do it correctly.

Spica  
Date: August 22, 2002 @ 9:33 AM
oh i do not lack the intelligence; neither do i lack experience with industrial chemistry, or electronics, or firearms, or tracing-services ;)

Spica  
Date: August 22, 2002 @ 9:34 AM
and no, i am deeply opposed to harming people. I only want to harm RIAA members, to take them out of the gene pool.

hrrglburf  
Date: August 22, 2002 @ 9:36 AM
Oh I see, not only are you a bio-chemist-anarchist-hacker-fiend, you're also a killer. I see, it's all starting to make sense: The arguing, the hope for legalized stealing, all of it... My poor poor child... Do you need a hug?

Spica  
Date: August 22, 2002 @ 9:37 AM
(oh yeah, btw, my connection is being relayed through my friends' TCP proxies in 4 different universities.)

Spica  
Date: August 22, 2002 @ 9:39 AM
well, i always enjoy a good hug :)

and copying is not stealing.

If i could "copy" a Porshe for free, i would have 20 Porsche's now

hrrglburf  
Date: August 22, 2002 @ 9:41 AM
Ever heard of copyrights? I guess not, they protect people's ideas. Have you ever heard of an idea? Have you ever had a great idea then had it taken from you and given out freely by someone else even though you had plans to make a little money off of it? Maybe not, but it doesn't usually make you happy. That's why these laws exist.

Spica  
Date: August 22, 2002 @ 9:43 AM
"ideas" lead to Penicillin, airplanes, spacecraft, computers, lasers and automobiles.

Music and Movies do not lead to anything but a brief psychological attraction.

Spica  
Date: August 22, 2002 @ 9:44 AM
...a psychological attraction, kind of like crack cocaine, which i am sure you RIAA executives are more than familiar with.

Spica  
Date: August 22, 2002 @ 9:48 AM
and if you read the definition of copyright at the US Copyright Office website, it says clearly that Copyright does NOT protect "Ideas".

hrrglburf  
Date: August 22, 2002 @ 9:53 AM
ahh, but a new car affects your psychology? It's like a whore, you pay for it's pleasure.

hrrglburf  
Date: August 22, 2002 @ 9:54 AM
you must be hella paranoid to think I am a RIAA exec. Wow... Your the kind of person I feel sorry for when I walk down the street.

Spica  
Date: August 22, 2002 @ 9:55 AM
A car is a product that provides me with quick and reliable transportation.

A whore provides me with a service and is usually paid by the hour.

And I will neither deny nor confirm any experience with whores.

hrrglburf  
Date: August 22, 2002 @ 9:55 AM
and your right I guess, but music and movies are not ideas either, they are a production. Just like anything that comes off an assembly line.

Spica  
Date: August 22, 2002 @ 9:57 AM
Well, if you are not a person in charge then I am sure you are at least in the position to relay my arguments to your boss (preferably when he/she is not high).

Spica  
Date: August 22, 2002 @ 9:59 AM
Well, if movies and music are production, then goodbye RIAA, for I am my own "Recording Industry" now, since I can take a CD and make an unlimited number of copies of it, for less than 50 cents per unit.

hrrglburf  
Date: August 22, 2002 @ 10:01 AM
for now maybe, that is why they are implementing all this ridiculous copy protection and trying to jail the common theif.

Spica  
Date: August 22, 2002 @ 10:02 AM
a common thief? please, I do not steal anything. All I do is make copies of an existing product.

Spica  
Date: August 22, 2002 @ 10:05 AM
and as for your copy protections: any music that can be heard, can also be recorded and copied through a device of my choice, even if it has to go through an D/A/D conversion.



NeoFlash  
Date: August 22, 2002 @ 11:39 AM
Ok, the RIAA says that the "creative" works of artists are being pirated. How much creativity did it take for eminem to make the song "ken kaniff" on the album the marshall mathers lp??? As I recall, the man ken kaniff is gay and is getting his dick sucked in the song, and you hear slurpy sounds.

In fat joe's "whats luv" song, he says about how he wants to screw more than 1 girl at once, and the girl is saying "its about us, its about just me".

In the song "one step closer" by linkin park, for about 30 seconds, in a loop you hear "SHUTUP!! SHUTUP WHEN IM TALKIN TO YOU" over and over again.

In britney spears' "im a slave for you" britney spears sounds like shes gettin screwed in the background, like a dog in heat for the entire song.

In the song "square dance" by eminem you hear "so wont you please jump off my dick, lay off, and stay off?".

In the song "drips" by eminem, you hear "all.. of these diseases, streaming from obie's penis" and "all these bitches on my dick"

tell me how that is creative??? maybe people will buy music when they make songs that sound good, like jimmie eats world, the middle, where he relies on his words and his music, not his being perverted, screaming for no good reason, sounding like youre a dog in heat, and so on. songs like linkin park points of authority were good.

maybe then people will buy music, but until good music comes out, screw buyin it. the reason people download it is because noone knows wheather they will get good stuff or the crap listed above.

NeoFlash  
Date: August 22, 2002 @ 1:25 PM
who let the spawn of skyalker into these threads????

crawdd  
Date: August 22, 2002 @ 1:30 PM
If somneone actually gets proscecuted for this, i say we start a fund to get him th ebest lawyers out there. lets see the giov't try and beat johnny cochrin etc. :P

goldenpi  
Date: August 22, 2002 @ 1:55 PM
The government is corporate friendly. It will be at least until we kick bush out, and probebly a long time after that. Corporate money, corporate taxes, corporate campaign contributions.

Spica  
Date: August 22, 2002 @ 2:18 PM
JimsMyName is with RIAA.
He and the retard hrrglburf are also likely the same moron.

shoshidge  
Date: August 22, 2002 @ 3:25 PM
Neo, just because there is some insipid crap out there marketed as music it doesn't mean you should tar every band or musician with the same brush. Yes, pop music is crap, most of it anyway, but that isn't the only music being made. And the good stuff will be just as affected, for better or worse,as the crap, maybe more so.
Do you really think that people download music because its crappy? I don't know about you, but I only download good music, I leave the Eminem and such to guys like Spica to jerk off to.
If the collective quality of pop music improved, there is no reason to believe that less people would download it.
CD sales would go up though.

NeoFlash  
Date: August 22, 2002 @ 4:37 PM
shoshidge, when i got after the riaa, you will be my first target.

shoshidge  
Date: August 22, 2002 @ 5:12 PM
huh?

NeoFlash  
Date: August 22, 2002 @ 6:16 PM
you will die when i get my hands on you. simple enough???

debart  
Date: August 22, 2002 @ 9:41 PM

For hrrglburf, who's obviously an industry shill..

Think the RIAA and the labels are a bunch of innocent victims? Har! They have been outright fucking over talent for decades, from the black jazz and blues musicians in the 30's and 40's to the young bands that sign their rights away today.

The bulk of the artists who make the mistake of going into business with the whoremongers that run the labels get mothballed in favor of the MTV commercial pop-cheeze acts that represent only 5% of the total number of signed artists.

Wrong or right is irrelevant.

At this stage it is the hand of JUSTICE and REVENGE that is embodied in the GNU network.

Take a look at this site.

http://www.negativland.com/intprop.html

Read any of the articles on that page, they are all good and educational. The best however is at the bottom. Read the essay titled 'The Problem With Music' - by record producer Steve Albini.

After reading this, do you feel sorry for the RIAA and it's bloodsucking money whores? I certainly don't.

Theivery my ass. Filesharing is karma.

Deb.




spikester  
Date: August 22, 2002 @ 9:55 PM
what a fucking joke, now theres RIAA assholes stirring up shit here... and i totally agree with you Spica!

NeoFlash  
Date: August 22, 2002 @ 10:12 PM
I want every RIAA guy to take a look at my stance.....than after reading it, shove your overpriced noise cds you call creativity up your ass!!!

shoshidge  
Date: August 22, 2002 @ 10:31 PM
Neo, what on earth did I say to piss you off?
I thought you were one of the reasonable ones, but you're threatening me? I didn't even disagree with you much, did you and Spica get raped by the same step-father or something? where is all of this rage coming from Jeezis!
Although I agree with Debart entirely, I have to speak in defence of hrrglburf.
His points were considerable when considering the impact of file sharing on software development, not so much with music though.
We all oppose the RIAA. Are you that choked and psychotic that you would turn your anger towards me? Who is generally on your side? Fuck you guys.
It wouldn't be a happy day for me if my file sharing abilities were taken away, but the way you guys are over-reacting its like a toddler having a massive tantrum because you threatened to take his toys away.
We've all smugly established that whatever the RIAA does, file sharing won't stop, even if we have to go back to the stone age when you borrowed music from the library and copied it at home. The primary issue is one of convenience.
You spoiled little whiners have no idea what it means to have your freedom oppressed, I'm truly offended on behalf of people out there who live in true, justifiable, fear of their government.
And Neo, please enlighten me, what opinion have I expressed in this forum that warrants such vile rhetoric from you.

NeoFlash  
Date: August 22, 2002 @ 10:46 PM
I thought you were against us...sorry, I get carried away when I think that someone may make me pay 15$ to get the 1 song that I like on the cd. Unless the software on gnutella being shared was something free from www,fileplanet.com or a free demo of something, it is wrong. Music should be shared though.

NeoFlash  
Date: August 22, 2002 @ 10:47 PM
The return of skywalker has really given me a bad temper.

Spica  
Date: August 23, 2002 @ 1:12 AM
SHOSHIDGE, i believe Neo got upset, because you unintentionally insulted Eminem, while all you really wanted to do is insult me.
see, Neo likes Eminem, but i do not, that's all. I have never had any Eminem mp3's on my PC.

I am sorry if i made you so painfully aware of the lack of purpose behind your music.
See, when people like me and artists were able to coexist peacefully, i had no objections.
However, lately, some great evil is being brought upon my species in the name of artists, by people like the RIAA; and frankly, i feel like professional artists are beginning to waste MY oxygen.

So I believe there are some things to be said.

What purpose exactly does music have that is worth fighting for, including prosecuting and jailing people?

Music does not replace food.
Music does not cure illnesses.
Music does not get us from point A to point B.
Music does not protect us from nuclear attack.

...What does, you ask?

People like me.
People, who are happy to live out their lives in the "depressing, grey world" that you and many others are SO AFRAID OF.
People, who evolved well beyond the point where music was still essential to life.

My "depressing, grey world" is a world filled with microchips, transistors, n-dimensional integrals, Fourier transforms, infinite sets, vector fields and other isomorphisms;
and to me, this world is much more beautiful and entertaining than any music I ever heard or any movie I ever saw.

And yes, it is still my opinion that the RIAA draws its destructive power from people like you, who keep making concessions, trying to compromise where a compromise is no longer possible.
Yes, part of me still remembers the joys of 10-20 years ago when I still listened to songs and watched movies; yet I am quite willing to make some necessary sacrifices to slay an Evil as great as the entertainment industry, more specifically RIAA and MPAA.

While I am not going to explain all of my reasons, since they are more complicated than they seem, suffice it to say that commercialized entertainment industries have become way too counterproductive, and they deserve to be destroyed quickly and painfullly.
The recent behavior of the **AA legal personnel warrants even more extreme punishment: complete physical, social, and genetic Obliteration.

I hope that after the "dust settles", people like you can go back to creating things that bring you happiness, and people like me can go back to providing people like you with computers, plastics, cellphones, alloys, internet, microphones, cars, pencils, keyboards and other things that 98% of humans so often take for granted.


Spica  
Date: August 23, 2002 @ 1:15 AM
i.e. fuck RIAA.
:D

goldenpi  
Date: August 23, 2002 @ 1:59 AM
Music downloading probably does cost the RIAA a bit, but nowhere near as much as they claim. I dont know how they calculate losses due to piracy, but I suspect they just estimate how many songs are downloaded and multiply by the cost of a CD :-)

Leaveing assive the issue of lost sales for now, the RIAA is a buch of morons. If they want to stop people pirateing all they have to do is finally switch to DVD audio. After hearing 5.1 channel PCM 24-bit 96KHz who would want to download MP3s? As well as that DVD audio has a protection system similar to CSS but (currently) unbroken, and the analog whole would be narrowed considerably as few people have a sound card capable of recording 5.1 channels from analog inputs. Instead the RIAA continues with its current easily ripped technology and blames us whenever its sales take a slight dip.

Ruveharov  
Date: August 23, 2002 @ 8:23 AM
Well i'm running on PIRATED win2000 and win98se and most of my soft n'd games are PIRATED and i bet i got at least 6,000$ in PIRATED soft, games and MP3s.

and BTW i got dynamic IP and and IPghost 2.4 so you try catching me (like that's gona happen)

And if you do find me i'll throw my pc out of the 15th floor window and say: ooh no i was taking a breath of fresh air and my pc "ACCIDENTALY SLIPPED" out of my hand's...
________________________________________

Windows is'nt a Virus, A Virus Does Something...

P.S go to this site for your REAL (LIVE) VIRUS resurces http://vx.netlux.org/dat/vir/3.shtml
(i suggest ADIN.3026{a powerful virus[Memory Resident;Size and Full Stealth;Encrypting and everybody's Favorite: POLYMORPHIC(difrent in each file)})


;-)

NeoFlash  
Date: August 23, 2002 @ 10:39 AM
1) Spica, that thing about the depressing gray world, and how the microchips and vectors are more beautiful than music was, listen to something from the game Final Fantasy 9's music album(download it, of course) and tell me that that doesnt sound good to you. the game final fantasy 9 for playstation 1 had the best music and story that made me feel like the entire world wasnt just mean people, and that there were people out there that were good and that friends wouldnt turn on me........ but than i turned off the game, and than the real world came to me..... and :( but the moments the music made me feel felt good.


2) I got pissed off because I got a small temper due to the fact that skywalker was spamming all last night.

3) Spica, I don't even have most of the things that you say people take for granted, I have a piece of shit old car starts up half of the time, cellphone, maybe when I can get a working cord phone, and the first time I went online was 3 months ago. Before that it was an old p2 with win 95, and before that one, dos. I don't have money at all spica, it is not the dumb ones i hate, it is the rich dumb ones that can get away with being dumb because they are rich.

3) I don't like Eminem as an idle or anything, I just listen to the music to make me mad so I can continue hating the RIAA, and it's funny how he insults everybody, but pay to hear it; hell no!!! its something that I say "well, it isn't worth buying, but since it's free, I might as well enjoy it".

4) I will still listen to mp3s goldenpi, because I need speakers bigger than my room to be able to tell the difference from that dvd sound and a 320k mp3.

DEATH TO RIAA AND MPAA!

ChillinBuzz  
Date: August 23, 2002 @ 11:01 AM
Let them stick it on DVD audio, as long as we can hear the sound, there will always be a way to record it (maybe not rip it, and not the best quality, but I guarantee you'll be all complaining like crazy when those DVD audio discs are costing $30 upwards and piracy is blamed once again for the price hike, not the greed running the industry) :p

NeoFlash  
Date: August 23, 2002 @ 11:19 AM
$30 a dvd!!!! $15 is outrageous for a freakin cd!!! I thought cds were $5 before I went to the store!!

Svensta  
Date: August 23, 2002 @ 11:21 AM
There will always be a way because there will always be pirates.
I got into this, because I don't feel a middle-man company should control the rights of the music from an ARTIST standpoint, and from a CONSUMER standpoint. As only a consumer, I boycott, rip and share, as my small part of speaking out against this.
Stealing is wrong, and unethical business practices are wrong. Political activism however is NOT wrong. Even protestors that are arrested are seldom charged. Should the Association hear my demands and put forth an agreeable business model, I will not engage any longer in my unlicensed p2p activities. I don't feel I have a right to do this because CD's are pricy, CD's will be whatever price the market will bear, as a rule of thumb. I demand full control over a digital version of a song I buy from you. In a sense I need to be teh DIGITAL COPYRIGHT HOLDER of this particular track. I can do whatever I like with my music, and if you don't charge me too much, I won't share it unwarrantedly.

Everyone is very emotional here (and sometimes damn funny) but the bottom line is the hardcore boycotters are going to perpetuate this until the Association gives in. It's inevitable. Only a matter of time now.

NeoFlash  
Date: August 23, 2002 @ 11:51 AM
True

DEATH TO RIAA AND MPAA!

shoshidge  
Date: August 23, 2002 @ 8:00 PM
I'm glad we're back to ideas instead of threats, Neo, apology accepted.
I am a musician and a music collector who is in almost total support of the concept of file sharing, not because it has allowed me to double my music collection cheaply, but because I believe its good for musicians.
I believe it is good because it gives a new band a means of getting heard without having to strap on the ol' kneepads and give some record company suit the 'big swallow' just to get a recording contract.
Its also good because it gives the listener freedom to experiment with styles of music that they are not familiar with.
The RIAA is a parasitic organisation, I wish they would dissolve and go find other jobs to do.
They are, however, not inherently evil, they are businessmen and as such, are obsessed with making returns on their investments which is why they inflict upon us the sort of music they do.
The unfortunate fact is that Brittany Spears and her ilk make them money, it sucks but its true.
For every music enthusiast who thinks she is a worthless bimbo, there are dozens of tone deaf chumps out there who are tripping over themselves to buy up more of her shit. The RIAA is giving the throbbing masses what the throbbing masses want.
Its quite democratic really, majority rules and all, they can't be blamed for the quality(or lack thereof) of pop music, I wish they could but there are just too many people who want their music to be simple, catchy and familiar.
Its the musical equivelent of people who eat at McDonalds, read Danielle Steele novels and drive Toyota Tercels.
As for Spica's musings over the value of music and art in general, first off I'd like him to know that I do have a day job where I do "real work", so be pleased to know I'm not a total drain on humanity.
The value of art is so intuitive in people that its hard to qualify in dry terms.
Art has enormous de-stressing potential, it inspires people, alters their moods, symbolizes their emotions, and stimulates their intellects.
The artistic expression of black people helped convince white folks that blacks were good for something more than slave labor.
The study of music early in life is shown to improve memory and math skills. Art is a manifestation of the human talent for abstract thinking, the conception of new ideas is art in action whether that new idea is a concerto or a design for a new computer chip.
Art is why we haven't organised ourselves into one massive ant colony, and maybe that's what Spica wishes we would do.
Art is what gives me the will to get up in the morning and face the banality of the next ten hours.
Spica do you ever leave your machines? Do you go out dancing? Have you fallen in love? If music is so irrelevant to you why do you download it? Do you just need an outlet for your rage?
I think you need a vacation, or a good blow job, maybe just a walk in the park to smell the flowers so you can discover the value of artistic expression for yourself.

NeoFlash  
Date: August 23, 2002 @ 8:23 PM
shoshidge, as a user of gnutella, I get to see the OTHER STUFF britney spears does to get money, and that's why she's popular. Damn, her ass must be bleeding now after the video I just saw.

And shoshidge, I do agree with the last 2 paragraphs, Spica has probably completely forgotten what happiness is, and is now completely obsessed with everything circuitry, he sounds very depressed, but I am too so I am not one to talk.

Spica  
Date: August 23, 2002 @ 8:34 PM
...mmm no, i am quite happy buried in machines and equations.
:D

NeoFlash  
Date: August 23, 2002 @ 8:36 PM
And if you consider programming fun, there is something wrong there. You will never know the simple joys of playing football with a few people in a swim club field without it being a big high school game, just a game with friends. If you don't do anything but computers, than you lose all of your muscle and get fat. I am in great shape because I go to a swim club and do laps in a swim club and chinups. Laps are pushing down on the water, which is good for the tricep and the chest, and chinups are good for the bicep and the stomach, since chinups tighten the stomach. For my legs I occasionaly play 2 hand touch football with fast people, since 2 hand touch requires more running it is good for the legs.

Spica  
Date: August 23, 2002 @ 8:38 PM
hey, neo, when i was about your age, i was interning at a university;
i used their fast connection and Netscape2.0 to download pr0n; I then printed it out (in b/w) and sold it to some confused kids at school for 50 cents per printout.
:D
see, THAT is what I call FUN.

;)

NeoFlash  
Date: August 23, 2002 @ 8:39 PM
You need excersize, I do tons of workouts even if they hurt just to stay in shape. Plus, I'm going to be a freshmen in high school, so I need to be in shape :o

NeoFlash  
Date: August 23, 2002 @ 8:42 PM
I have a laptop, so I can 1 up you. I can download porn movies and bring my laptop places and charge people $5 per video. And of course, I enjoyed them myself. Still, you need physical activity to stay in good shape, someday in the future you'll get into a fight or be convinced to play football and you'll be humilated.

Spica  
Date: August 23, 2002 @ 8:45 PM
you dont need to excercise; all you need is a FastAbs-type electronic muscle stimulator, and you are all set.

electrical engineering is my best friend :D

(guess what my fiance majors in, hehe)

ahahahaha.

Spica  
Date: August 23, 2002 @ 8:47 PM
and yeah, i can do like 30-35 pull-ups; once i did 48, bu that was after i got some weird immunization shots into both shoulders.

Spica  
Date: August 23, 2002 @ 8:48 PM
(oh no, i infringed on pr0n copyrights, i guess the pr0n idustry will come after me and beat me up with a big rubber penis)

NeoFlash  
Date: August 23, 2002 @ 8:55 PM
Actrually, you don't need to buy that. I got a 6 pack by moving my stomach in and out. And those machines don't work, you need real excersize. And whats a pullup anyway, I've heard of chinups, but not pullups. Chinups are where you stand up, grab a bar above you with both hands, and pull yourself up.

Spica  
Date: August 23, 2002 @ 8:57 PM
and shoshidge, please don't tell me what kind of sexual activity i need.
Ever again.
you sound stupid, like all artsy hobos.
i got bored with freaky sex sometime between 1st and 2nd semester.

i have other priorities now, like getting my own place close to college,
and maybe increasing my salary by $10,000-20,000 to support a family.

this however will not stop me from going after the RIAA.
I am good at multitasking.
:D

Spica  
Date: August 23, 2002 @ 8:58 PM
sorry, "pull-ups" are the same as "chin-ups", its just some old slang from highschool.

NeoFlash  
Date: August 23, 2002 @ 9:00 PM
And if you have a fiance, and from a previous thread that you have kids, than why are you saying that you don't care if you die to destroy the music industry??? That would devestate 2 people, not to mention parents.

Spica  
Date: August 23, 2002 @ 9:01 PM
those machines do work, neo, you just need to double the voltage and increase the usage time to, oh let's say, 24/7.

NeoFlash  
Date: August 23, 2002 @ 9:03 PM
Now that you are getting married and have a kid, if you become a fugitive, and must always be on the move becuase you, lets just say, shot hilary rosen in the leg, do you really think a child and a wife will be willing to run all around the country???

Spica  
Date: August 23, 2002 @ 9:04 PM
collateral damage, neo.

as some ho once said "nothing really matters".
besides, AS I SAID, me dying would be senseless, because one death is so unnoticeable.

p.s.: what side are you on anyways?

NeoFlash  
Date: August 23, 2002 @ 9:04 PM
Protest, flood their servers for their website, pirate music, but don't do something drastic, your family may not wanna be dragged into this. Does your fiance know of all these plans???

Spica  
Date: August 23, 2002 @ 9:13 PM
first of all, she is just as evil as i am (i am not gonna explain).
second, no she doesn't, and she probably never will. some secrets serve a good purpose.
Credible deniability.

no more questions about personal life, or i will get more personal than you would like, Lou.

(oh no, now you know i'm a guy. damn.)

anyways, back to screwing RIAA.

don't worry, i am not gonna try to kill myself obliterating them, but it doesnt mean i am afraid.

NeoFlash  
Date: August 23, 2002 @ 9:16 PM
I am on your side, I am just saying that you have a responsibility to your wife and son/daughter. You can't just die and leave them with no one. All of the girls I have ever met or knew were all ditzes and bitchy and really really dumb, so I know I ain't gonna get a g/f in some time, I want someone smart, not bitchy and good looking. I wouldn't wanna die if I had a fiance that was smart and hot(is she hot)?? And that's just wrong to abandon a child, I have a good friend Nick whose father was killed in a motorcycle accident when he was 4 and he still hasn't gotten over it since, and he still wishes he had a dad. I am telling you this because I know someone who has grown up without a father(I swear I am not making this up) and it was a painful childhood, don't do that to your son.

NeoFlash  
Date: August 23, 2002 @ 9:20 PM
I will not ask anymore personal things, and I knew all along you were a man, you are too smart and evil to be a girl. I don't care if you dig into my life, I have nothing to hide, and I never take insults seriously, and I don't care how personal you get, I have always been like a phychiatrist(can't spell that, you know what I mean) to my friends.

Spica  
Date: August 23, 2002 @ 9:33 PM
first, dying a stupid death on a motorcycle is nothign compared to dying in a firefight with SWAT.
second, I am not planning on dyin dammit, why dont you fucking read what i say.

NeoFlash  
Date: August 23, 2002 @ 9:35 PM
last thing on this subject: if the police put a gun to your head, it doesnt matter what ur planning, unless u dont want it to go that far.

Spica  
Date: August 23, 2002 @ 9:41 PM
they'll never get close enough to get me alive.
being dead is better than being in jail, you remember that.
good night for now.

NeoFlash  
Date: August 23, 2002 @ 9:42 PM
Good night, we really need to find a chatroom for this.

shoshidge  
Date: August 23, 2002 @ 9:49 PM
So I'm an artsy hobo eh?
We sure make bold pronouncements about strangers around here don't we? fine.
Spica, I don't think you're stupid, I think you're cynical, nihilistic, emotionally under-developed and the thought of a guy like you raising children makes me uncomfortable, and if you aren't sexually frustrated you sure sound like it.
Your technology won't keep you warm at night when your girlfriend gets tired of your lack of romanmce, arrogance and snide tendency to insult people rather than reason with them.
That is, of course, if your true personality is reflected by these posts, if that isn't the case, than maybe you're just a hypocrite and a prankster, which isn't to bad I can live with that.

NeoFlash  
Date: August 23, 2002 @ 9:54 PM
I have lots of romance, and I'm nice to women and I care about them, if only I had a woman, that would help.

Spica  
Date: August 24, 2002 @ 2:11 AM
well, i cant sleep knowing there is such an exciting debate going on in here :D
...

shoshidge, let me quote you:

1. "I leave the Eminem and such to guys like Spica to jerk off to"
2. "Spica do you ever leave your machines? Do you go out dancing? Have you fallen in love?..."
3. "I think you need a vacation, or a good blow job,..."
4. "and if you aren't sexually frustrated you sure sound like it."
5. "Your technology won't keep you warm at night when your girlfriend gets tired of your lack of romanmce, arrogance..."

shoshidge, as you might have noticed, you were the only one eager to bring sex and love into this discussion.

Just from looking at what you have been saying so far, i can see that sex is a very sore issue for you.

I think you are an adult, or maybe even an older man, who has never experienced anything remotely resembling a healthy sexual relationship with women.
Trying to declare your opponent "sexually frustrated" seems to be the only psychological weapon in your arsenal.
(As I recall, Sigmund Freud does mention such behavior in his works.)
What truly interests me, is what you will do when this method fails, as it has now.
(Let it be known, that I HAVE indeed spent several years in co-ed dorms; so without further elaboration, I can say my sexlife has been more than fulfilling.
The last time I could have been upset by such remarks was back in the days of my glorious puberty, which is unlikely to repeat itself anytime soon.)

Now let me slowly continue to shame you by taking apart your previous arguments.

1. I do not like "Eminem", I have never heard a single complete song performed by him; I only know the man from news media.
Also, to me, he is a musician not significantly different from yourself.
2. I do not need to leave my "machines" to have fun or to fall in love. I met my fiance (or rather she accidentally contacted me) on our local university network.
3. I do not require vacations; I am satisfied with having reasonable control over my workaholism. And I find ways to stay fit.
4. I am sorry if your mind tries to perceive every person as sexually frustrated. Unfortunately, it is probably just you and the voices in your head.
5. Technology DOES keep us warm at night. It is called "Central Heating System". :)
Not all women are into soap-opera-style emotional crap; this you might have noticed if only you ever went to a real educational institution.

Furthermore, since you seem opposed to any compromise between our views, I should explain that any insults I might have directed towards you were based on observation and objective interpretation of your behavior.
While I certainly agree that I am cynical, I think maybe you should clarify how you define one's emotional development.
There are many who think that emotional and intellectual development are the same thing; this means the more intelligent person will always have the moral high ground in a debate.

But let me just compare my emotional responses to yours.

I believe that my first priority is to serve the human species, trying to prevent genetic or catastrophic extinction; this is also what requires me to contribute to our civilization.
My other priority, as with most lifeforms, is taking care of my family and relatives; and also helping those people whom I consider useful to me.

You are trying to justify your usefulness as a musician, a maker of noise (which has yet to be found positively "stimulating", in an UNBIASED scientific study, conducted by COMPETENT researchers.)
Furthermore, you seem to defend the concept of following one's every emotional urge, no matter where it may take you physically.
This reminds me of the emotional responses of a 11-year old crack addict, who steals money from his poor parents to get more crack - because he WANTS MORE.

I hope this completely clears up any confusion about where we both stand regarding our emotional development.

In conclusion,
I believe you are just another moron, who spent his life watching TV and smoking pot.
Do us all a favor and take a real physics course.

Otherwise, I am seeing more and more reason to start ignoring you completely.



..g00dnitez 8)

Spica  
Date: August 24, 2002 @ 2:19 AM
p.s.: about me rasing children:
Well, you might be right to feel uncomfortable.

MY children will probably be eating YOURS.

In Nature, we call it "Genetic Superiority", and who am I to argue with Mother Nature.

:P

uerseya  
Date: August 24, 2002 @ 7:03 AM
Hmm . . .

With all due respect . . . ya donkey's ;-)

If you spent half as much time and energy fighting the RIAA and putting your heads together in a concerted effort as you do snidely sniping at each other then this website and the 'cause' would actually get somewhere !?!

P.S. - this isn't a shoot me message, simply being the messenger . . . ;-P

DamageIHaveDone  
Date: August 24, 2002 @ 8:05 AM
I can't picture the U.S. Government dedicating the resources to stop p2p networking as they can't even stop pot usage, over the border immigration, terrorist acts, or much less collect taxes correctly. Ergo...there will always be a way for us to function. The music industry made all the same statements about VHS and audio cassettes. Big whoopee.

Also, the impending baseball strike, file sharing, the concept of globalization...(blahblahblah)...there's a common thread. People are getting sick of being force fed crap. No one will spend time or money on a form of entertainment that is not consistently on demand. It'd be like watching a movie and being told to come back two weeks later to see how it ends up. No one will care. Same thing with the music industry. We can't get the artists we want from when we want them so it shouldn't be surprising that we find a way to do it for ourselves. I can't stand 95% of pop music in today's market but if the record industry can find a method to strap me in my seat like Little Alex and show me the error of my ways they'll do it. It's far easier to propogate a bad system than it is to change.

The RIAA and others like them (MLB for instance) are their own victims. Actual or practical monopolies of their markets have kept them young and beautiful through the present day...but they no longer fulfill functions anymore. Like buggy whips the last company standing made the best ones but what for?

Okay. I'm done. :)

leflaw  
Date: August 24, 2002 @ 10:33 AM
I love this thread!!!

NeoFlash  
Date: August 24, 2002 @ 10:37 AM
Spica burned you shoshidge, just burned you.

Splca  
Date: August 24, 2002 @ 11:26 AM
For your information shoshide, I also enjoy dogsex.

goldenpi  
Date: August 24, 2002 @ 1:43 PM
Ah, the overnment cant stop pot, of terrorism, or any other crime. But there is a difference. With those crimes the people at the top dont get massive bribes/contributions to focus all police effot on one crime. The RIAA/MPAA could so some gentle encouragement, asking the police and government to focus on piracy and saying its severly damageing the economy. Then they make a few huge contributions and suddenly everyones doing exactly as they say.

debart  
Date: August 25, 2002 @ 12:19 PM

What I want to know is if there's this *right* called 'civil disobediance' that allows individuals who gather to break the law in protest of it without fear of arrest, isn't the GNU network, a 'meeting place', and the folks who are filesharing, engaging in 'civil disobedience'?

If I get busted, you bet your ass that's what I am going to claim as my right.

Deb.

shoshidge  
Date: August 25, 2002 @ 1:26 PM
Well, I guess any hope of impersonalizng this one is gone.
Spica, I regret that in my frustration regarding your obnoxious tendency to make inflammatory accusations towards other writers in this forum, namely Hrgglburf and his ilk, simply because they were offering opinions that differ from the usual, counter productive, inflammatory, immature b.s. that that the majority of us are writing, I guess I felt a little defensive on their behalf.
I am obviously too much of a moron to understand why someone who holds music and musicians in low regard, yet is so upset about the efforts of others to make music slightly less convenient to obtain he's gone so far as to make threats towards their families. You do seem unfufilled Often, sexual frustration is the root cause of pointless, misdirected rage.
So enlighten us, why do you care so much?
I am obvoiusly too dumb to understand how a workoholic, techno zealot, wanna be revoloutionary,(which is how you present yourself), would make a good husband and father, especially when they consider aesthetics to be a total waste of time. What are you going to do if your kids a potential musical genius? Take away the piano and hand him a science textbook?
I appeciate both the aethetic and technological aspects of human potential, both equally important, but I guess being balanced is a sign of stupidity in your eyes.
The tangible value of music has been well established by solid research although most of us don't need a guy in a labcoat to tell us why music is important.
If you think university women are normal then you live on a different planet than me. University is the place where getting caught glancing at a girl's tits can get you expelled, or if you don't get verbal permission for every sex act you wish to perform, you can be accused of rape. In some schools, the guidelines dictate that having sex with a girl who has consumed alcohol, even one drink, can be constituted as rape.
I'm not saying all university girls endorse this nonsense, but I am wary around them just in case.
I'm glad you found yourself one of the freaky ones, but they are the minority.
I don't smoke pot and I don't have a TV
I fail to see what a physics course would do for me except help me catch up on some sleep, I might as well tell you to take an art appeciation course.
I believe the word need artistic people and scientific people in order to function. I'm wondering, in your ideal world, what would you do with all of the musicians, poets and other flaky creative types? Slave labor? Or would you just have them lined up and shot?
Maybe some kind of forced "behaviour modification" treatment could be devised. Is that what you're working on right now?


Spica  
Date: August 25, 2002 @ 4:08 PM
shoshidge,
you have not said anything really new, but I feel like I would like to comment on some of your views one last time.

about hrrglburf:
there are only 2 types of people who openly support the RIAA:
1. the very stupid
2. RIAA members themselves.
since hrrglburf did not seem very stupid (he used professional psychological tricks), he must have been an RIAA bitch.

"So enlighten us, why do you care so much?"
- I never said i cared about music.
Music to me has an economic value of Zero dollars.
This means, if i can get music for Zero dollars, there is a 50% chance that i WILL get it.
(intro-to-econ-class..?)
Oh btw, the RIAA doesn't really give a fuck about music in itself either; to them it's just a tool to rip off other people.

"What are you going to do if your kids a potential musical genius?"
- I am myself a "musical genius", which my parents discovered back when I was 6y old. In fact, I am also a genius at math and geometry, which automatically made me a "genius" at painting and sculpting.
But i have estimated that as an engineer, I would be more useful to humanity.

"I appeciate both the aethetic and technological aspects of human potential, both equally important"
I am sure you do. However, there is no hope for people who say both of these are "equally important".
Music is completely irrelevant for our species' survival and expansion, while engineering, the ability to build advanced tools, is what makes us Human.
(Even frogs make music; but they still dont have Thermonuclear warheads.)

"I believe the word need artistic people and scientific people in order to function."
- I don't believe, I KNOW FOR A FACT, that it doesn't. :D

People who consider music as important as any given technological field, deserve to be ignored.
And this is exactly what I am going to do with you from now on. Goodbye. :)

skywalkerspam  
Date: August 25, 2002 @ 4:16 PM
haha
hey, i woudl like to apologize for spamming.
I would also like to apologize for making up the name "SPLCA" to annoy you, Spica.

I am a complete nothing.
I am just some bastard who has no friends, no girlfriend, no job, no education, and no money.
All i do all day long is stalk small children around the local elemntary school, trying to have sex with them.

I deserve to be shot at point-blank range, after being elaborately tortured.
I would like to stop spamming and go fuck myself.
But since i suffer from bipolar disorder, i can't promise that i wont do this again.

Please don't hesitate to ban me from these forums.

PetulaClark  
Date: August 25, 2002 @ 4:32 PM

shoshy: Can you cite any of the journal(s) and study(s) where this was demonstrated? "The tangible value of music has been well established by solid research"

If I do a PubMed search on 'value of music' would it come up in Neuron?

If I were arguing with an engineer I certainly wouldn't attempt to make a point about research or technology if I haven't bothered to understand any of it.

As a person who wears a lab coat once in a while, I find your comments amusing. I have to admit that I appreciate the value of music. However, I have found and like good music made by intelligent, sensitive people - who may have taken a university level physics course (at LEAST a non-calculus based one, geez!)

My personal opinion is that good music is a good filter for intelligent people and intelligence is a good filter for first-rate artists.

By the way, were you actually expelled for "glancing at a girl's tits" ? (or worse) or did you just decide not to waste your money on education (after getting a 'gift' of taxpayer-paid high school education) Your perspective on 'university girls' only demonstrates how little time you have spent in that environment.

Your defensive verbage undermines your credibility, Mr Sho.

NeoFlash  
Date: August 25, 2002 @ 5:22 PM
Spica, not all music is bad. If you give me a email address that allows 5 mb attachments, I can send you music that I guarantee will make you feel something, It's not rap, rock, or classical. It's a little number from the Final Fantasy IX video game i downloaded, and I think you'd actrually like some of it. Some of it is good, and some of it is just plain evil.

debart  
Date: August 25, 2002 @ 5:27 PM

Music does have a proven effect on developmental ability. Unfortunately (for people who are between 12 and 22) it's the kind of music that is multi-modal, or polyphonic and the best examples of that are classical. You can BTW, get great classical music from the Naxos label, for 5 bucks a pop. I got the entire brandenburg concerto set for a tenspot. Much better then N'Sync.

Here's the Cliff Notes version of the study that links music to higher brain function

http://www.mindinst.org/MIND3/mozart/mozart.html

You can get to the more detailed stuff from the page.

Deb.

JimmyZJr  
Date: August 25, 2002 @ 6:06 PM
I am really suprised at how much crap shoshidge has taken. Going to a site whose purpose is to make music more widespread and finding people who detest and undermine the value of music is very ironic. I guess you find all sorts of odd things on the internet...

Music/Art may not have the most tangible and easily seen effect on a person but the fact remains that there is one. It relieves stress, gives hope, and generally makes life a little bit more worth living. Granted, it is a luxury... but so is technology. Toads may not have Thermonuclear Warheads.... but do they really need them? Do we?

Both technology and art make life easier and more entertaining. By pigeon-holing artists as useless you basically say that anything that doesn't produce a good or further technology is a waste of human effort. I beg to disagree. A true intellectual realizes that there is more to life than work.

PetulaClark  
Date: August 25, 2002 @ 6:55 PM

debart: I knew about the study. But I'm trying to challenge shoshidge into doing some homework and coming up with an informed basis for his opinions.

I like jazz myself. I recently saw Herbie Hancock (has an electrical engineering degree) on a late night commercial hawking stereo speakers. That is just sad.

Shame on you Blue Note Records and Capital Records, your contempt for America's best musicians is pure evil.

NeoFlash  
Date: August 25, 2002 @ 8:17 PM
Death to RIAA! We are coming for you, firewalls, norton antivirus auto protects, and the upcoming p2p2p will make it impossible to find us, will fight you to the bitter end. I am only 13, all I can do is get smarter, than go to college and learn how to make the software to make users of gnutella unprotected. We are coming for you RIAA, and you aren't even safe in your mansions paid for by overpriced cds and money fromn screwing over artists. When you say about the new laws about how the RIAA will catch file-sharers, listen to Eminem Just Don't Give a Fuck, that pretty much summarizes up what I think of the N.E.T law.

NeoFlash  
Date: August 25, 2002 @ 8:18 PM
P.S.

In Gnucleus, when I set it to "I am behind a firewall", all fo the information gets through norton and my firewall, so I can share, and you can't find me!!!!

NeoFlash  
Date: August 25, 2002 @ 8:20 PM
I am sharing 193 files to 3 people at once each at 5 kb/s, mostly songs, few unpopular songs my dad askes to burn from library cds, movies, prank calls, music videos, and few perfectly legal game demos and download.com programs I downloaded for free so it must be legal since people are paying the price of the program downloading it, $0.

NeoFlash  
Date: August 25, 2002 @ 8:23 PM
Thats 3 complete albums, 2 half albums, a few tracks from tons of unpopular music, 6 prank calls, tons of Final Fantasy IX music, 6 movies, and over 10 music videos. Every day I burn my friend's cds into mp3 even if I don't like the music so I can share it, So I can help destroy you!!!!!!! THE RIAA WILL DIE!!!

debart  
Date: August 25, 2002 @ 8:25 PM

Sorry 'bout jumping in on that.

HH selling speakers? Get outta town! Jesus. :(

As to jazz, have you listened to much Medeski, Martin & Wood? Absolutely fantastic, and some of the jazzanova that is new and fresh is incredible.

The Verve Remixes Disc is superb.

There's a song floating around, by DJ Krush (he's a Japanese electronica whiz, better than DJ Shadow by a longshot), who's got a piece titled "Edge of Blue." DL it if you can find it.

I don't have clue what album it's off of, and I think it's just a single one-off jazz mix, but it's super sweet.

Deb.

shoshidge  
Date: August 25, 2002 @ 9:13 PM
Hrgglburf wasn't defending the RIAA so much as he was defending the idea that musical expression has value in our culture as art or as entertainment and as such, we should be willing to pay something to enjoy it. That doesn't mean that he or I endorse the RIAA regime which sees lots of money go to lawyers and very little to musicians.
Musicians should receive compensation for their work, if you dissagree, then don't buy music, don't go to shows and don't listen to the radio.
Spica presents a very subjective view of the economic worth of music, if it means so little to him that's fine, I still don't know why he downloads it if he doesn't listen to it, if he listens to it he must like it, unless he's a masochist, if he likes it, it must have value to him.
Ask a club owner about the economic value of music, it might be the thing that motivates people to go to his place instead of across the street, if you took away his sound system or bandstand, he'd go out of business.
The value of music is intangible just like any other entertainment, we might not realize how valuable it is until it is taken away.
Iran has no music, officially anyway, is it a better place to live because of that fact?
The arguements about musical value and entertainment value are linked.
Ignore the artistic aspect for a minute, let's say that popular entertainment is deemed useless by our new god-king Spica. What would be the collective effect on the population if popular entertainment was banned? This has been done, Afghanistan under the Taliban was like that so are other highly religious communities that see any joy not derived from religion as sinful, or highly communistic cultures which only allow artistic expression that celebrates the state.
To say that life would suck in such a culture demonstrates cultural bias, so lets look at it with Spica style criteria.
Are those cultures more efficient and productive than us?, NO
How about their technological aceivements? Pitiful, Are they more peaceful? Quite warlike, usually. Do they live longer? NO.
Real life examples of life without music and similar diversions demonstrate with brutal clarity their socio/economic value.
I don't think Spica would have a place in one of those cultures any more than I would.
As for Petula, I did three years in college and had a great time, I just stayed away from the 'Womans studies' girls.
There is a facet of contemporary feminism that wishes to equate seduction with rape. I didn't have any real problems, but some guys I know did, and they didn't deserve it.
If you want hard facts, you and I both know they are a few clicks of the mouse away, I just don't care enough about all of this to make a research project out of it.
I'm glad I amuse you though, I consider that entertainment value and I demand compensation, you'll be hearing from my lawyer.

shoshidge  
Date: August 25, 2002 @ 9:15 PM
Hey debert, check out 'cinematic orchesrta', and Amon Tobin if you haven't already, brilliant jazzy electronic stuff.

NeoFlash  
Date: August 25, 2002 @ 9:35 PM
Spica is not completely right, and no matter what he says I know that some music is good. The Final Fantasy IX soundtrack ruled, and if I sent it to Spica via email attachment if I knew his email, I guarantee he'd like some of it. And Spica is not anti entertainment, he just hates music like the rap and some rock today. Look at my stance under the creativity part and see what new songs have in them. Spica likes movies, has been in a co-ed dorm so he must have had LOTS of non religious fun ;) and what do you mean by you'll be hearing from my lawyer, you don't know where he lives, and he did nothing wrong. Now that you have consulted the other RIAA people and came back with this crap, fire those people and hire other people to tell you what to say that know what they are doing.

You are a RIAA minion, we don't want you here!!!!

DEATH TO THE RIAA, MPAA, AND ALL OTHER GREEDY AND EVIL MUSIC INDUSTRIES!!!

debart  
Date: August 25, 2002 @ 10:33 PM
Het shoshidge, have you read the Janice Ian Internet Debacle article yet?

http://www.janisian.com/article-internet_debacle.html

Pay attention to the paragraph where she talks about getting royalty checks from her label.

Re-read it twice to make sure you got it right. Eeek!

If you have other doubts, there's the negativeland.com site as well.

90% of the acts out there today get more money from gigging than their CD's.

Don't forget the follow up letter..

http://www.janisian.com/article-fallout.html

Deb. :)

PS, I'll check out the bands you suggest! Thanks.

PetulaClark  
Date: August 26, 2002 @ 12:32 AM

Debart, those Janis Ian articles are all superb.

And for a specific response to your last post, shoshidge, you should also fully read this:

http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/shouldbefree.html

There's a big difference between working to make a living, and getting rich by sitting around on your ass pulling royalty money or siphoning commission money for selling a vanity item. The alternative to allowing someone to make obscene amounts of money off someone else's music is not limited to not having music. A fourth grader (or simply an honest person) would tell you that's an oversimplification.

Also, I'd like to point out it's just unsatisying to argue with a person who insists on sounding like they barely got through the first-year writing course at Cal State Nowhere, or copied their college essays off the web. I mean, I let people (humanities majors, even) copy my papers, but I could never take them seriously after that. I don't think anyone else here should either.

Also, your admission that you are not willing to rise any higher (and the near-admission to being a 'shut-in, homophobic asshole') does not help the constituents you are representing with your arguments.

I'm sure there's plenty of reactionary revisionist interpretations of contemporary feminism that equates seduction with rape, you don't need to accept them if you don't agree with them. But I can understand (with the idea some creeps I-used-to-know have about 'seduction') where that's coming from.

Sigh, was a time negativland could be heard on US radio. No joke. Businesses are making it difficult to derive joy from anything other than $$.

PetulaClark  
Date: August 26, 2002 @ 12:49 AM

Everything on the Compost label is great. AND If you're on their mailing list, they'll tell you when downloads of their new stuff is available. Maybe you knew that. :)

Spica  
Date: August 26, 2002 @ 1:41 AM
*sigh*
Assuming the US is already the greatest country in the world.

I claim it is not DUE to its entertainment, but DESPITE its entertainment.

The US could be so much greater if only professional artists would be making minimum wage, and TV would only show useful information in an efficient manner.

Now P2P effectively provides the tools to castrate the entertainment idustry and all the rich useless clowns.
...

From my notes-inbox, about 1/3 of the people here strongly agree with me; thats much more than i expected, and I am glad that so many of you, real Humans, are out there.
Thank you :D

May your ways lead to Victory.

goldenpi  
Date: August 26, 2002 @ 2:36 AM
Has anyone noticed some major technology companys (AOL, sony) have got ties to entertainment industrys? There are even some on the RIAA member list.

PetulaClark  
Date: August 26, 2002 @ 2:40 AM

Spica, didn't know about the party in your inbox. I also strongly agree with you.

Also, (not that you need me to tell you) I think your emotional outrage is an entirely appropriate response to the world by an honest, intelligent human being. You also speak in your own words with obvious conviction in your beliefs. I publicly commend you for speaking so freely.

( Who the hell am I? the god-king of public speaking? )


heh heh heh, He said 'dogsex.' :D

Spica  
Date: August 26, 2002 @ 2:48 AM
me? emotional? outrage? :'|
hmm.
I thought I was strictly logical.
The decision to obliterate the RIAA was logical.
The means I am considering are all logical...
Does it really sound like my pulse ever went above normal?
hmmm

Oh well. ;) :D

Spica  
Date: August 26, 2002 @ 2:50 AM
p.s.:
i hope everyone noticed the obvious difference between "Spica" and "Splca", or otherwise it may cause some confusion.
:D

Svensta  
Date: August 26, 2002 @ 8:30 AM
Further Pi, these conglomerates are also the HARDWARE manufacturers in some senses. Sony is Sony records, and Sony Music and Sony Electronics. They are selling us over-priced music, and then selling us Vaio computers with burners there in so we can rip and share the same tunes. And AOLTW banks on CONTENT to keep AOL afloat, and music and video on demand is a big part of that content. Seems like they are all stuck fighting themselves and us.

NeoFlash  
Date: August 26, 2002 @ 10:35 AM
Spica, I agree with everything you say but:


1) I don't like most of TV, that's why I don't have cable. I like some sitcoms at night, that's all. I don't like most of TV, but some of it is entertaining, most of it is garbage.

2) Spica, I do agree that rock and rap is almost all bad, but that doesn't account for all music. I listen to some jazz on the radio, and there is a song from the FInal Fantasy 9 album that I think you would like, and the person that was the new skywalker I just found out was Splca, the password will ber noted to you.

kgnally  
Date: August 26, 2002 @ 10:51 AM
How about this proposal for a new law: "All Internet content is hereby declared in the public domain."

"Any content entering the Internet at any time shall become property of the public domain."

The makers of software, movies, books, and music could still sell their works. It would just be free for anyone who couldn't pay. And let's face it- the Internet *is* public domain.

PetulaClark  
Date: August 26, 2002 @ 12:29 PM

OK, yeah, I was just projecting - I get 'emotional' urges to throw bricks under certain circumstances.

Logical solution, or furious rampage, as long as the job gets done! ;D

What's with everybody spawning evil twins? (Splca) More sabotage from RIAA? mercenary crank/spammers?

Svensta, it IS nice that hardware manufacturers are divided - very convenient for us. (Tivo is also cool, but it still won't get me to watch TV)
but I'm a scared of counting on the market to sort things out without input of people like yourself.

kgnally, how's this:
I am placing a 'fair use' restriction on the money I spend. I hereby declare all the money I exchange for a product or service can ONLY be used in ways I approve. IE: to pay employee wages, benefits, contractual obligations, philanthropy, or equipment purchases. The money must not be used for copyright enforcement, paying off radio stations, bribing goverment and law enforcement, advertising/promotion, tarot readings, or whatever.

Democracy in action!

NeoFlash  
Date: August 26, 2002 @ 2:23 PM
This is gonna be funny.....

Splca  
Date: August 26, 2002 @ 2:25 PM
haha
hey sorry again Spica, for making up this stupid username.
I just like being a jackass because I am retarded and have no testicles.
I am also sexually deviant and, as you can see, I like having sex with dogs.

If anyone here decides to shoot me, I will be fine with it.
I would consider it euthanasia, since living as a stupid piece of shit is so painful.
Or at least ban me from these forums.

Once again, I made up the name "SPLCA" to annoy Spica, and I am an idiot.

Thank you.

debart  
Date: August 26, 2002 @ 4:35 PM
Can you use tha name 'Turd Ferguson' instead? Say it three times slowly. Turd Ferguson... notice how it rolls off the tongue so nicely?

So, skywalker, besides being into bestiality, do you have an opinion of the RIAA, and the MPAA and their attempts to dominate and lord over the computer industry?

What say you?

Deb.

HarrySack  
Date: August 26, 2002 @ 5:22 PM
Dear RIAA Guys

The people who wrote books by
hand were pretty piss off when
the printing press came along too.
Sucks to be you......because you
can't stop technology!

shoshidge  
Date: August 26, 2002 @ 9:45 PM
Neo, read my posts carefully before comenting on them please.
Also, if the soundtrack to final fansasy is the only example of good music you can come up with,( I liked it too, for video game music), you need to get away from the playstation every once and awhile.
Debart, the Janis Ian article was absolutely brilliant, i agreed with it entirely.
Also, I'm with Petula in recommending the Compost label, other good ones are Ninja Tunes, Ubiquity, Talkin' loud, and G-stoned which is Kruder and Dorfmeister's label. Anything by K&D usually rocks, Check out Tosca, and Peace Orchestra.
Petula, I know you don't like me, but you seem to be giving me a hard time for the sake of it.
I'm not a professional writer and don't claim to be, i'm just expressing opinions based on obsevation and experience, I don't expect you to agree with me but your constant jabs at my writing style and lack of intelligence make you sound excessively snobby, in fact, most of the shit I've been getting seems to indicate that none of you know how to fucking read.
I am not a mathmatical genius as Spica claims to be, I don't work in the fields of science and research as Petula seems to, nor am I a cocky, seemingly illiterate teenager like Neo.
I've never said one good thing about the RIAA or the MPAA or any such organization.
I am simply offering a pro-P2P musicians perspective on the issue of file sharing, because, when the rubber hits the road, musicians are the most likely to be affected,(for better or worse), by all of this stuff.
But I guess that makes me an asshole around here.
The primary excuse by the RIAA for its actions is that it's protecting the interests of musicians.
I'm here to say they are full of shit, obviously I went off into some secondary issues that some of you don't sympathize with. But my primary position has been quite clear.
If Spica and Petula are as smart as they claim, they should be willing to overlook my plebian, unlearned, sub-humanness and accept that I am essentially on their side.
The pro-file sharing community needs all of the friends it can get.

Spica  
Date: August 27, 2002 @ 2:10 AM
( *Spica wipes the blood off his sword and smiles as he looks down upon the evirated corpses.* )

goldenpi  
Date: August 27, 2002 @ 7:00 AM
One thing the final fantasy soundtrack is noted for is remixing of its chocobo theme. Just enter chocobo in any p2p system and see what happens :-).

The RIAA has never protected artists. They only protect their profits.

PetulaClark  
Date: August 27, 2002 @ 11:43 PM

Shoshidge, I recognize from your posts here and elsewhere that you are becoming more informed regarding the music business and some of our motivations than you had been a month ago.

So, if I have offended you on a personal level, I apologize. But I still stand by my criticisms.

For me, the most frustrating aspect of the whole issue is that the arguments tend to get oversimplified - file-sharers get misrepresented as selfish teenage hacker-posers (or worse, commercial bootleggers) - by the popular media, and the uninformed public just eats that stuff on Donahue up without examining the issues.

Yes, the file-sharing community needs more support. I am not the file-sharing community, but I do appreciate your taking time to read the articles posted here.

No, I don't sympathize with you on any of the side-issues you bring up. I will not be blackmailed into supporting corporate exploitation, profiteering, homophobia, or misogyny just because I need a 'friend'

Likewise, beyond support for liberated exchange of ideas and culture I don't expect other Gnutella users to adopt the same rational for file-sharing that I do. I don't even expect them to want to hear about it.

I do apologize to everyone for bringing my more general political views into the discussion.

jonknet  
Date: August 28, 2002 @ 2:44 AM
Pertaining to software piracy

The people who pirate expensive software weren't actually going to buy it anyways. They simply don't need to buy it since usually they will not be making a profit off the content created. Let's just look at it this way: Without the ability to pirate, common everyday people would never know the power of these great programs. Why should I have to buy a copy of 3D Studio Max if I just want to experiment with it? Discreet and other companies whine and whine about how they're loosing money that was never theirs in the first place. They're just not thinking... Just because theres a larger userbase now does not mean there were just as many potential sales. That's the internet for you.

About music.. well that'll never be settled until either all lawyers are executed or bribing goes out of style.

shoshidge  
Date: August 28, 2002 @ 8:35 AM
I apologise too for bringing up irrelevent issues, I can't help it sometimes.
But what bothers me, Petula, is that my views regarding file sharing haven't changed since I started posting here.
And I do not see how any comments I have made would paint me as homophobic or misogynistic, nor do I support corporate exploitation,( although my views on corporations are a little softer than yours as you know, that's cool).
It seems that my comments are being reacted to in a knee-jerk fashion without being fully comprehended. Either that or I've got to start writing more clearly.

NeoFlash  
Date: August 28, 2002 @ 3:35 PM
1) Shoshidge, if I am illetirate, how do I write here and have a 2 page stance???

2) There is some good music like some Linkin park stuff, but most music sux.

3) If youre on our side, stop insulting us!!!

4) You should write more clearly shoshidge, because one minute I thionk you're on our side, and the other that you're and RIAA minion, you should become pro or anti so I can tell.

5) Quit referring to me as a teenager, even though I am one, I hate other teenagers that can be swayed by a shiny commercial or something popular, or that think that they will rule the world.

Spica  
Date: August 28, 2002 @ 3:48 PM
just a quick comment to JimmyZJr:

"Toads may not have Thermonuclear Warheads.... but do they really need them? Do we?"

Well, Sir.
When a 1x1x1 mile icecube is heading towards Earth at 50,000 miles/sec , I hope you will finally understand the value of thermonuclear warheads.

In fact, at that point, you will be BEGGING for more thermonuclear warheads.
:)

Spica  
Date: August 28, 2002 @ 3:57 PM
or even just 50 miles/sec, we dont need to get exotic here :D

shoshidge  
Date: August 28, 2002 @ 6:20 PM
Neo, literacy implies comprehension. I've gone over some of my earlier posts and they seem pretty clear to me.
I don't support the RIAA, but I also don't support the rampant, extremist, hatemongering and paranoia that is being posted aound here, I don't think it helps.
But if you want, I'll make it easier for you.
WOO-HOO! Fuck the RIAA! Fuck their mothers!Kill their pets! Bomb the schools their kids go to and them fuck them like the little mongerel bitches that they are! Yah! fuck em!

PetulaClark  
Date: August 28, 2002 @ 6:53 PM

Neoflash can guide that thermonuclear warhead for us. He seems to have extensive experience with such things on his Playstation console. :)

You know... there's a bunch of toads in the Whitehouse who control thermonuclear warheads right now.

If you're talking 50 miles/sec, you may want to go with a 10 mile diameter icecube.

shoshidge, do you know how to find the diameter of a sphere?

shoshidge  
Date: August 28, 2002 @ 7:14 PM
I did in high school, I'd have to dig out my notes.
Do you know what modal scale to use when taking a jazz solo on Miles Davis' "So What"?
Is this another crack at my intelligence?
You know, for someone who claims to be a defender of the poor, oppressed peoples of the earth, you sure judge people by elitist standards.
You do know that most poor, asian rice farmers are illiterate don't you?
If you think I'm uncouth, you probably couldn't last a minute in a conversation with those that you claim to speak on behalf of.
You dissed me earlier by speculating that I went to some no account community college, well, assuming I did, what if I couldn't afford anything better?
You sound insufferably haughty.

NeoFlash  
Date: August 28, 2002 @ 7:51 PM
shoshidge, I have comprehension, but how do I know what side you're on if you are a neutral-gnute??? And for petulaclark, I said that i played Final Fantasy IX, big whoop. I played a video game, who hasn't at 13 in 2002??? FFIX is a very good game, not just a shoot em up like Quake 3 arena, which is fun too, but not as good. And shoshidge, you are starting to sound like spica when you said "WOO-HOO! Fuck the RIAA! Fuck their mothers!Kill their pets! Bomb the schools their kids go to and them fuck them like the little mongerel bitches that they are! Yah! fuck em!". You are starting to get as insane as spica there. And if that icecube comes to hit earth, instead of burning it, why not just use some sort of device laser or not to direct it at the RIAA central office :D???

PetulaClark  
Date: August 29, 2002 @ 12:13 AM

Sorry Neoflash, this thread and it's topic is now under exclusive control of shoshidge.

Try fourth grade math.

Do you mean to imply there is something wrong with 'haughty-ness'? If it makes you feel better, I am properly deferent when people start discussing tomato farming, jujitsu, motorcycle racing, Laplace transforms, or analogue circuits. (yeah, Spica, ashamed to admit it)

You seem used to having people make digs at your intelligence.

You see, what bothers me most is your insistence on arguing what are (by your admission) uninformed opinions.

That's how large numbers of people make collassal mistakes, you know - loudmouth know-nothings (still can't believe that was ever a real political party, were you a member?) spouting nonsense they only partially understand. That's why you probably get flamed at every forum you ever post on.

Also, I noticed you never bother read your messages, update your journal, write a stance (although your stance seems as malleable as jello on a hot day) or attempt any other sort of participation with like-minded members of this community either, what's with that?

From now on, whenever you speak of things I can tell you don't really comprehend, I will try to refrain from embarrasing you in public. Look out for (or delete in fear) my admonishing notes, though.

shoshidge  
Date: August 29, 2002 @ 12:59 AM
You've insulted me again, indicating you disagree with my opinions, now, tell me why. Why am I wrong?
You haven't embarassed me, because you haven't given any counter-arguements.
I am not used to people making digs at my intelligence because I tend to hang around the type of people that don't assume I'm stupid just because my worldview is different from theirs.
I have never offered an opinion on anything that I consider myself to be uninformed on.
And yes, I do consider haughty-ness to be quite a repellant personality trait.

shoshidge  
Date: August 29, 2002 @ 1:05 AM
My participation with this community consists of sharing my music with those who also wish to share theirs, isn't that what were here for?

NeoFlash  
Date: August 29, 2002 @ 10:45 AM
Petulaclark; shoshidge does not control this thread at all, I'll sya whatever the hell I want.

uerseya  
Date: August 29, 2002 @ 1:29 PM
Why the f##k are you so busy dissin' each other ???

Blind stupidity, and I apologise now for saying that . . . but your here to boycott a huge multinational 'collossal' conglomerate and all you end up doing is bitching at each other . . . . no wonder congress doesn't take you seriously . . . .

'Grow up !'

http://www.boycott-riaa.com/forums/general/255

shoshidge  
Date: August 29, 2002 @ 1:33 PM
What, you think congress actually reads these?
Sorry, I'll try to stick to the issues at hand

Spica  
Date: August 29, 2002 @ 2:04 PM
petula:
a.) radius*2
b.) (volume*(3/4)*(1/pi))^(1/3) * 2
:D

petula and neo:
(assume a mile is longer than 1km)
ok, let's take a 1km icecube, travelling at 50 km/sec, just for the sake of the argument.

volume: 1000*1000*1000=10^9 cubic meters.
mass: 10^9(m3) * 10^3(kg/m3)=10^12kg (assume density of ice about same as water, 1000kg/m3)

now for the real fun:
Kinetic energy of icecube:
Ek=(1/2)m*v^2 = (5x10^4m/s)^2 * (10^12kg) * (1/2) =1.25 x 10^21 J
ok, so just the kinetic energy of the icecube is 1.25*10^21 J

now assume we have a warhead, that contains 10kg of material, which is completely converted to energy (which doesnt really happen in todays warheads, unless u have animatter bombs)
it's maximum energy would be: E=mc^2
E= 10kg*(3x10^8m/s)^2 = 9 x 10^16 J
ok, so the energy of our SuperBomb would be less than 10^17 J

___The icecube has more than 10,000 times the energy of that one SuperBomb.___

now, replacing km with miles, we get even more kinetic energy for the icecube.
...
can you launch 10,000 antimatter warheads so that they all hit the icecube, and at least SLOW IT DOWN?
i dont think so.
------
...just something to think about :D


NeoFlash  
Date: August 29, 2002 @ 2:31 PM
No offense, but Spica, you confused the f~ck outta me.

uerseya  
Date: August 29, 2002 @ 4:18 PM
Nice to see you can all keep your mind on the 'general point' at hand i.e. boycotting the RIAA . . . as opposed to concentrating the asteroid that'll hit us in 17 years approx.

Oh well screw it all we're all going to die so what's the point . . . lets all get shafted by the RIAA collectively . . . . don't you just love the feel of being anally raped ?

Fun eh ?

Get a freakin' clue !

PetulaClark  
Date: August 30, 2002 @ 3:19 PM

Oh, oh, you have to excuse me Spica. I was laughing for two days straight at the article on Yahoo! Science News about the guy who thinks we can deflect asteroids with giant airbags.

Yeah, sorry uerseya, I'll grow up. Didjya sign the letter to the Hardly-Honorable John Ashcroft, by the way?

"I want some peace and quiet around here!"

"I'll be quiet."

"I'll be peace."

NeoFlash  
Date: August 30, 2002 @ 9:15 PM
Asteriod, I have heard about this, why not just send some stuff(missiles, bombs, etc.) to make it smaller now instead of waiting til it's right next to us to blow it up??? Spica, please destroy it with the "Fat RIAA fucker", the RIAA can wait another 6-8 weeks shipping if the people that will benefit from destroying the RIAA can live.

PetulaClark  
Date: August 30, 2002 @ 10:08 PM

Time to bury the thread!

Griffith's critereon for crack propagation. (Heh heh, He said 'crack')

When you take the integral of energy released by said warhead over time to get units of force (call it G)

and compare it to the fracture toughness of the material (composite: agglomeration of iron and silica in frozen water matrix, I dunno ask a civil E) given by:

PI * (sigma)^2 * a / E

where
sigma - is yield stress of ice,
a - is size of initial defect (a crater or existing fissure, perhaps?)
E - Young's modulus of ice

If G is significantly larger than fracture toughness (for machines we build in a safety factor, but safety factor in space debris?) Then the fracture will propagate through the ice-cube.

What will happen, then, Neo, is the earth will be rained upon by hundreds or thousands of little (10-100m diameter) ice-cubes. This can be just really pretty or just as dangerous.

PetulaClark  
Date: August 30, 2002 @ 10:14 PM

Oh, wait, I meant derivative of energy with respect to initial defect size!

G = d E / d a

Ugh. The summer has been too long. Have significant brain atrophy.

uerseya  
Date: August 31, 2002 @ 7:49 AM
Heh heh . . .

What could the RIAA & MPAA and all the 'bought' congress people be useful for ???????

???????

???????

???????

???????

Send them all up in front of the asteroid, there's enough hot air and bull shit between them the asteroid wouldn't stand a feckin' chance !!!!!!

Lol ;-)

Hail M

Hail p

Hail 3

Hail MP3 !!!

goldenpi  
Date: August 31, 2002 @ 9:31 AM
We could put all their money in a small box and throw it at the asteroid. No more rock, just a financial singularity :-)

I just sent an intresting email to the RIAA soundbyteing address, asking of their aducational packs were only available to universitys and colleges.

Odds are:

I get a reply 1/2
I get a usful reply 1/10
I get a usful reply and they say yes 1/200
They send them to me for free 1/600

goldenpi  
Date: September 1, 2002 @ 3:56 AM
Nothing yet.

NeoFlash  
Date: September 1, 2002 @ 6:56 PM
This has gotten so off the subject, it's not even funny.

FAWKRIAA  
Date: September 15, 2002 @ 7:51 PM
Aye you fuckers, a life will be taken just because you want to take my freedom from file download!! so is file copying worth a person? Don't make 70 million people mad cause not even all your weapons will take us all plus if u nuke us ur dead also. I will lead the 70 million people if i have to so if you don't stop now damage will be done to your country and World war 3 will start!!!! "Power to KAZAA p2p!!"