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Copy protection on CDs is 'worthless'
http://www.newscientist.com/news/print.jsp?id=ns99993020
Copy protection on CDs is 'worthless'
19:00 06 November 02
Barry Fox
The technology built into some CDs to stop people copying them is futile, according to a computer scientist who has put today's antipiracy systems under the microscope. He believes the continual software and hardware upgrades issued by the makers of computer CD drives and audio CD players render copy protection systems pointless in the long run.
John Halderman, a computer scientist from Princeton University in New Jersey, plans to show delegates at a digital copyright conference in Washington DC next week that the idea of CD copy-prevention is "fundamentally misguided".
In 2001, Princeton University scientists debunked the technology the music industry planned to use to inaudibly watermark sound. Halderman is now doing a similar job on copy prevention systems.
Halderman looked at three widely available copy-protected CDs. He found that the three different copy protection formats they used all had one thing in common: they all index the contents of music discs using a system meant only for recording CDs on a computer's CD drive.
Table of contents
A conventional music CD has an electronic table of contents at the beginning of each disc. But a PC-recorded CD has several tables, with a new one written every time a new recording session adds something to the disc. Each of these tables points back to the previous one.
Personal computer CD drives read the last, most recent table first and work back through the series of indices - but audio CD players read only the first table.
A CD containing a copy-prevention system indexes the music correctly in the first table but then adds dummy tables containing deliberate errors. So CD players that read only the first table will play the music normally. But PC CD drives - which people use for copying - look at the last table, see garbage, get confused and play or record nothing.
Unfortunately, some audio CD players and in-car players use PC CD drives, and will not legitimately play a protected CD you have paid for. Nor can people play music CDs on their PCs.
"Simple modifications"
But all these measures can be sidestepped, says Halderman, thanks to the computer industry's habit of continual upgrading and bug fixing. Makers of CD players and CD-ROM drives only need to make "relatively simple modifications" to their software and supposedly protected CDs can be played with ease. So playback and recording equipment is becoming resistant to copy-prevention techniques.
"Software upgrades can be delivered easily using the internet," says Halderman, "and this will permanently undermine the usefulness of audio CD copy prevention." To ban upgrades, he argues, would lead to "buggy software and poor hardware."
The record industry could lose a fortune if people stop buying CDs and make their own copies. Halderman reckons he has a solution for them. "Reduce the cost of new CDs; if discs cost only a few dollars each, buying them might be preferable to spending the time and effort to make copies or find them online."
User Comments
(These do not necessarily reflect the beliefs of this site)
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FiveX
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Date: November 6, 2002 @ 11:57 PM
first post...hahz i'm so proud |
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FiveX
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Date: November 7, 2002 @ 12:03 AM
my feedback: nice article, i think i'd like to use this for a report :P | um...the solution Halderman suggests is right on the money... |
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scottjw
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Date: November 7, 2002 @ 1:27 AM
Does anyone know how the eldred vs ashcroft trial has been panning out or is it done or what?
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goofycaca
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Date: November 7, 2002 @ 2:12 AM
The only problem with this argument is that RIAA is pushing the idea that overriding these protections is illegal. So if it's illegal for legitimate owners to circumvent security to read their own CD's, what happens to all of those manufactures that build readers that circumvent that security? Then get charged under the bullshit laws that we are trying to protect ourselves from. The laws are already on the books to prevent this technological advancement. Funny how poorly thought out laws effect law abiding citizens. |
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thumbtack
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Date: November 7, 2002 @ 3:14 AM
The Elrod Case has been heard by the Supremes...a decision will most likely come in April. |
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NeoFlash
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Date: November 7, 2002 @ 4:04 AM
Just for awhile I'd wanna see people completely stop copying cds and filesharing, just so the music industry can finally see that it is still getting low sales, and it is not p2p and copying making cd sales lower, but the fact that their music sux doing that. |
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scottjw
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Date: November 7, 2002 @ 5:04 AM
Thanks thumbtack... I read the transcript, but I didn't know they hear all the arguments in one sitting. |
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StephenHinkle
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Date: November 7, 2002 @ 5:29 AM
I think even if circumvention is illegal under the DMCA, does not stop a hacker from figuring out how to play it on a Computer! Someone WILL figure it out eventually.
There is no stopping the music from these CDs from appearing on Gnutella, etc. What is to stop one from connecting their "Analog Out" or SPDIF to a computer sound card and recording it?
Even if hollywood and the RIAA want to plug the analog hole, what is to stop one from creating a "Divide by 70 Volt" converter, and connecting it to their SPEAKER OUT, and connecting the output of this divider to their PCs Line in? Plugging the Analog hole will be NEAR IMPOSSIBLE. PEOPLE WILL ALWAYS GET POST-CONVERSION DATA BY CONNECTING DISCRETE CIRCUTRY TO THEIR BOARD! |
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razor1911
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Date: November 7, 2002 @ 6:25 AM
worthless is right! Who cares what the stupid RIAA clowns do, they should change their name from RIAA to L.I.A.R. (Litigation Industry Association of Retards) If anything, hackers will see it as a challenge, and get the music anyway. This will have ZERO effect on anything at all. I think its good, because any opportunity for hackers to sharpen their skills is GREAT!!! Down with the RIAA mafia! |
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spikester
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Date: November 7, 2002 @ 6:52 AM
Hardware manufacturers are fighting back from customer frusteration.
More and more cdrom drives today are becoming resistant to this kind of inferior technology.
The cdrom hardware/firmware makers are becoming sneaky...
Cdrom drives read the last known session first and read back through the session sectors... However...
If the cdrom drive errors in this process and cant read through all the garbage index sectors at the start of the disc, it will give up, retry and intelligently read the first sector from the beginning. Problem solved.
Easy solution to everything. Only way to overcome this problem would be to make copy protected "cd's" not work in any cd player at all. :) |
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StephenHinkle
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Date: November 7, 2002 @ 7:37 AM
This is happening. As a matter of fact, according to FatChucks.com, some standard CD Players, and Car Stereos cannot play these "corrupt CDs".
According to Milberg.com, they are suing BMG, EMI, Sony, Universal, and Warner Bros for not labeling their "Corrupt CDs" correctly. These inferior disks are NOT STANDARD CDs!
In the compliant at Milberg.com, it states that the record labels made discs that bear the "CD" logo, and will not play in Personal Computers, Macintosh Computers, CD Players, Digital Video Disk Players, Car Stereos and Digital Video Game Console drives that bear the CD Logo. |
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LarsIsMyBitch
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Date: November 7, 2002 @ 8:06 AM
If you have a corrupt CD, here's the actual link from Milberg's website to JOIN the class action lawsuit:
http://www.milberg.com/mil-cgi-bin/mil?templ=featured/audiocds.html
Does anyone know which CD's in the US are using the corrupt technology? |
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W-B
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Date: November 7, 2002 @ 2:49 PM
Copy protection isn't merely "worthless"; it's also out-and-out discriminatory and exclusionary. It has no value as a "piracy combatant", the clear intent is to effectively disenfranchise and disempower the average consumer, as I've gone over again and again. Next thing we'll hear, they'll try to sell CD's (Not CD's) that, if you try to copy, will self-destruct in five or so seconds . . .
But this is the kind of thing that happens when you have a small elite of multinationals who have made up their minds (as they have) that copyright, "intellectual property" etc., all have more rights than human beings. Talk about "locked up": that term could best apply to the minds of those who control the multinational entertainment-media complex, their alphabet-soup lobbies, and their stooges / dupes / etc. in both houses of Congress. |
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furrball316
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Date: November 7, 2002 @ 3:58 PM
I see the point was made about the RIAA using the arguement that overriding copy protection is illegal, but couldn't the manufacturers argue that their upgrade fixes a bug in the system that prevents the CD drive from playing the disc? I don't think the RIAA can do anything about it if the upgrade is intended to allow the device to properly play the disc, because nobody can argue that the disc wasn't intended to be played on a CD Audio device, which has always been one of the intended functions of a CD Rom drive. Therefore, technically, the manufacturers aren't breaking the copy protection scheme, they are fixing a flaw in their product that prevents it from playing CDs it was intended to play. It's not their fault if the copy protection scheme used by the labels isn't compatible with their debugged product. If the RIAA tries to do anything, the manufacturers could counter-sue the RIAA for attempting to harm their sales by releasing CDs that render their product inoperable for it's intended and CLEARLY LEGAL use. Even the RIAA doesn't challenge that it's legal to PLAY a CD on your CD audio device, and they couldn't challenge that without putting themselves out of business. What legal uses would be left for CDs? Who's going to buy a CD that's illegal to even play? Wouldn't it be interesting to see what a judge, or better yet, the Department Of Justice, would say about Sony hobbling their CDs so that devices made by other manufacturers will no longer play them, while Sony still manufactures devices that have no problem playing them?
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creativetim
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Date: November 7, 2002 @ 5:17 PM
Good stuff in here. |
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bastardsofglory
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Date: November 7, 2002 @ 6:52 PM
start buying directly from independent artists, like Bastards of Glory. and, now that dmusic will have its own store, it will be much easier. |
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goldenpi
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Date: November 7, 2002 @ 7:28 PM
Erm...sony is already working on that. SACD. Its a propritary sony format, designed to compete with DVD-audio. The RIAA website explains it, obviously describeing it as a way to improve the quality of their music :-). But its highly propritary, and includes copy prevention.
Im surprised there hasn't yet been an attempt to replace audio CD with SACD or DVD-audio, both of which include copy prevention. Im not sure which I dislike most: non-standard CDs which only work on some players, but based on a mostly open standard. Or CD-like discs which play on any player designed for them, but are based on a propritary technology. |
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FiveX
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Date: November 8, 2002 @ 12:56 AM
ayo, can i use this for a current events report? :D |
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FordIndigo
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Date: November 8, 2002 @ 1:28 AM
http://www.msnbc.com/news/829352.asp
Here's more on that SACD and the DVD-audio.
And while I'm at it I just had a great idea on how to beat the RIAA and MPAA. We could all go around and take every literary work, movie, song, and painting and find all the "copyright violations" in them and incite all the living authors and backing industry into a suing frenzy. Then we could all pay off the politicians and judges to rule in favor of the industries so then no one has any money to buy anything the industries put out. No one will want to create anything at all because they will just be sued for it and the industry will just dry up and die. Oh wait the industry already started doing that didn't they. |
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FordIndigo
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Date: November 8, 2002 @ 1:42 AM
Hrm well it seems that link doesn't work, well you can try putting it in manually.
Basically thought it says the discs put inaudible watermarks on the cds, the players will play some other cd formats but not all, the formats they do play such as legacy audio sound like crap, there are no digital output jacks on any of the players, many retailers are refusing to carry them because no one is buying them. |
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LarsIsMyBitch
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Date: November 8, 2002 @ 3:01 AM
Wow - Imagine - Sony using their own equipment so that you can only play SONY MUSIC DISCS.
Improve the sound quality my ass! Sony is trying to capitalize on their own market by making their hardware and "software" only work with each other. So tell me - are we all going to have to put Sony SACD systems in our cars now if we want to take our disc on the road? If so, good-bye $200. car stereo systems! It'll be like, what, $700. for a knockoff, and $950.00 for a real Sony SACD car system! And if you're stupid enough to buy into that, then you're obviously too rich to care anyways.
How about a headset with 5 speakers - you'd look pretty fucking stupid walking down the street like that. How about in a portable player to take to the beach or mountains?
Sony SUCKS - just for thinking about doing this to their customers. I'm not buying a damn thing again from Sony. Too many other competitors of theirs have quality stuff. Sony hasn't made a new technology worthwhile in the last 10 years anyway, so screw em.
LIMB |
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ChillinBuzz
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Date: November 8, 2002 @ 5:05 AM
On the subject of self destructing CDs, how about they put a false table right at the end and make the edge from some unstable material. In a CD player it would finish before reaching the end, but in a PC it would read the last table which would de-stabilise the CD and cause it to shatter under the pressure, wrecking that Ģ5000 Sony CD drive you bought because everyone else has been sued out of business.... heh :D |
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ChillinBuzz
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Date: November 8, 2002 @ 5:08 AM
You do realise those bastards probably snoop round here every other day and we're giving them ideas? Good. Copy me and I'll sue you Sony. Every word and idea I print is mine (and DM's of course :D) so if you nick them prepare to be flamed into extinction!!! |
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Svensta
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Date: November 8, 2002 @ 8:29 AM
Know what would actually improve sound quality? Dumping the millions in funds they spend for each devised copy-protection into R&D for higher fidelity hardware.
I love when they invent new things like this. First sharpies, who knows what will break them next. The only worry here is that damnable TCPA. Stop that, and all this is just puffery. The future could be now. |
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princess-angry
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Date: November 8, 2002 @ 8:36 AM
I don't go with a technology untill it become real mainstream and all the bugs are out of it..... but I kinda liek the idea of SACD and DVD-A but they are way to xpensive for me.... now don't give them ideas........;) but I also think that the prices of cd's need to go down!! I mean I am only willing to pay 15$ max on one cd!!! I am tired of havting to buy used cd's all the time! I want a new cd that costs less.... and I think that lower prices will end all this!! they don't copy the cd's to brek a law... they copy them becuase they can't afford it! rich people aren't the only ones who can enjoy good music!!!! so please lower the prices and then you won't have to do all this and put yourselfs thrugh all this hate and suffering.... that's the key!! in order to get respected you have to earn it!! and you'll earn it by putting the consumers first!!! that's the way to go!!! |
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DCD-MP3
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Date: November 8, 2002 @ 9:33 AM
This is such a grey area. I understand the companies are just trying to protect their works
but the idea of copy protecting those cd's and in turn not playing in consumers cd players gives them more of a reason to go to the various
file sharing programs and get their music from there. Music companies, give us cd's with lots of goodies on them like dvd for a reasonable price and the cash is yours!!!!
Hey my friend is here: WAS UP CDC-MP3!!!!! ya kno who dis is! Kewl site! MUCH LOVE FRIEND!!!!! |
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goldenpi
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Date: November 8, 2002 @ 5:22 PM
As far as I know only sony makes SACD players. These players also play CD and sometimes DVD-video. They dont play DVD-audio. It would be quite easy to make them play DVD-audio with a firmware upgrade, but you cant expect sony to help support a competing technology. I expect digital outputs wil be available if the format gains enough popularity, but only protected outputs :-)
The labels dont actually want or need high quality hardware. The average consumer is not an audiophile, and probably has a hard time telling the difference between a 16KHz 8bit mono and a 96KHz 24 bit stereo. With CD quality reached the point where most people wouldn't gain anything from an improvement. Anyway, the format isn't the cause of quality loss. It usualy comes from cheap equipment, electrical noise or coupling and tiny cheap speakers. SACD and DVD audio wont improve quality much to a normal listener. (But they will allow us to take apart the sound with enough detail to hear the stars muttering about cheap labels between verses :-)).
two speaker headsets have an intresting side effect. The sound seems to come from slightly above the listener. Stereo only preserves the horizontal componant of a sounds position. Humans determine the vertical componant through a very complicated analysis of the reflections of the sound from the outer ear, and no headphones can reproduce that.
5.1 or 6ch can be played through a 2ch system with a downmixer. A downmixer can be anything from a DSP chip to six leds and two phototranssistors in a matchbox, depending how much the manufacturer is willing to spend :-)
I am quite accurate at predicting the future based on past trends. I say the various entertainment companys will survive, but will be harmed considerably and have to rearrange some business models. The biggest danger is the potential side effect of various propritary DRM schemes killing open systems and damageing consumer rights and fair use (palladium, CPSA, SDMI, etc). |
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LarsIsMyBitch
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Date: November 8, 2002 @ 9:55 PM
Sure the entertainment industry will survive. Looks, we were promised $10. CD's 10 years ago - never happened. Sony makes the hardware, but they also make the SACD music format.
1. How many companies are going to pay SONY to use their format?
2. Do you expect the price of 28.99 SACD's to come down anytime soon?
3. Most people don't want anything with 5 speakers, unless it's attached to their TV. Customers aren't used to hearing ANY music in surround sound, at least like they have at the movies. If it doesn't fail, I'll be pretty sad.
This means: Sony has the opportunity to convert people, and fuck em over with the prices.
I'm quite accurate at predicting the future based on past trends also; enough to know that getting fucked over by Sony is not a possibility; it's an expectation.
And to be honest, their stuff isn't the top of the line anymore. In almost ANY category. Take an honest look sometime, and you'll see it too.
I appreciate your technical knowledge, goldenpi. You're really clear and you make things make sense.
LIMB |
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goldenpi
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Date: November 9, 2002 @ 9:22 AM
Audio CD is inherently insecure. Its unencrypted, and can be read on standard hardware. Since the many labels are all so eager to use these improvised copy protection schemes they will certinly switch to a format which is encrypted and protected if possible. There are only two encrypted replacements for audio CD available: SACD and DVD-audio. For the labels it will be a choice between paying sony to use SACD or paying the DVDCCA to use DVD-audio. But which will they choose? Im still researching the details of SACD protection. DVD audio protection looks vry similar to CSS through, so dont expect the labels to be too confident :-).
Audio CD will remain the format of choice for now through, because few people have SACD or DVD-audio players. Few (if any) DVD-video players will handle plain audio. And with the cost of implimenting decryption and decompression neither formats' players will be as cheap as CD, which is basicly just connecting a laser to a serial DAC, plus some control circuitry and a very simple processor.
Sony does tend to cut corners a bit to save money, but they still have a lot of influence because they make so much. Their TVs and CD players are well known, but they also make STBs. They make specialist chips to use in their appliances and STB (includeing an intresting firewire chip with DTCP encryption circuitry). They make MP3 players. They have their own lossy compression format. They make the magicgate and memory stick formats, which they insist on using in everything they make which needs removeable memory. They even make that expensive toy dog. And they are also a music producer :-).
Sony really likes propritary technology. SACD, memory stick, magicgate, (ironicly named) OpenMG, ATRAC compression, minidisc. Its all sony, and they dont let anyone else make it. They go too far through, look at the restrictions on netMD :-) The technology which annoys me the most is memory stick through. Sony wants this to become the new floppy. And they might be able to do it, simply because they make so much. All their MP3 players use memory stick. Their vaio laptops often have memory stick drives. The expensive dog uses memory stick.
DVD audio and SACD can support 2 or 5.1 channel. 5.1 channel can be downmixed easily.
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Kinescope
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Date: June 4, 2003 @ 4:22 PM
ITs amazing the way corporate industries think. They think they can stop audio copying! Why they canīt just realize that you canīt stop a sound from being PLAYED, and anything that is played can be RECORDED?
Self-destruct disks can be copied the first time the are played , encryption can be broken (and it will be surely, just one company canīt beat the entire internet human resource), propietary formats tend to be avoided by the average consumer. However, if Sony can convince everybody to accept his format, it could control the market. It just has a small flaw: itīs way too obvious!!
Beware, Microsoft is being obvious about monopolizing the market many years by now, and is bound to continue that way. WHy? because when people realized it, it was too late. Itīs up to us (consumers) to stop sony from crossing that line. |
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