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RIAA sued over Amnesty offer
A California man says the RIAA's so-called Clean Slate program is "hollow and deceptive".
Eric Parke is suing the association, saying its offer is designed to get people to incriminate themselves and provide the RIAA "and others" with "admissions" through which they could land in court, in spite of having signed the RIAA affidavit.
Parke, who's never downloaded music, "decided he'd go ahead and step forward and be brave enough to put his name on this in the public interest," says his lawyer, Ira Rothken.
Far from getting people off the hook, the so-called Amnesty offer is meant to deceive them through misleadingly worded press releases, program descriptions, and a "deceptively ambiguous 'Clean Slate Program Affidavit designed to be executed by individuals who have been fraudulently induced to admit illegal wrongdoing by RIAA’s empty promises of 'amnesty'," says Parke in a court document filed by Rothken, a San Rafael attorney.
"When you have a situation when the general public, including sophisticated major newspapers, get it wrong and are reporting the RIAA is promising not to sue in return for filing these admissions of guilt, that on its face means you have a deceoptive business practice," Rothken told us.
"The RIAA’s assurances of 'amnesty' for complying with its 'Clean Slate Program' are hollow and deceptive, and provide members of the general public with no real legally binding assurance that those individuals who are induced by the RIAA’s empty promises to admit activity objectionable to the RIAA, its members, or other recording companies, will be free from later prosecution by the government or lawsuit by Copyright owners for the very copyright infringement admitted under the 'Amnesty' program," says the court paper, going on.
"The RIAA describes the program as 'Clean Slate' but yet does not promise to destroy any data or evidence collected on members of the general public who submit affidavits under the 'program' leaving the 'slate' anything but 'clean' for those Copyright owners or Government prosecutors who subpoena such information from the RIAA. This lawsuit seeks a remedy to stop the RIAA from engaging in unlawful, misleading, and fraudulent business practices including advertising an 'Amnesty Program' that does not provide real amnesty from lawsuit and a 'Clean Slate Program' that does not provide a real 'clean slate'."
Rothken hadn't heard from the RIAA when we spoke with him.
Download the complaint (400kb pdf)
Jon Newton
User Comments
(These do not necessarily reflect the beliefs of this site)
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Ein-Tier
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Date: September 10, 2003 @ 12:39 PM
Amen to this guy, finally the general public standing up to the corrupt empie. |
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captdunsel
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Date: September 10, 2003 @ 12:41 PM
My challenge still stands cary sue! Are you a man or a.... well I don't think anyone who would sue a 12 year old girl is a man. I'm waiting.
Ha 1st post |
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captdunsel
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Date: September 10, 2003 @ 12:43 PM
ok so I wasn't 1st but my challenge still stands and for those who missed it, it looks like this--
I can't stand it anymore. I'm not a diplomat, I'm not a lawyer, I'm not a politician and I don't know what Jesus would do. Having grown up in the wild wild west, smack dab in he middle of "Billy the Kid" country, I only learned one way to deal with assholes.
Read this carefully, I'm not kidding. I am 100% serious.. cary "the Boy named sue" sheman, I challenge you to a fight. Let's get in the ring and settle this like men. 3 rounds, you and me, no bullshit. You say you are not up for the challenge? Ok pick your surrogate, mitch braincheese, orrin hatch, howard berman, senator conyers, that other fool who you guys sent to Taiwan. I don't care. Only two conditions,
1. since I'm not a pro you can't pick a pro (or even a lifetime amateur)to fight for you. Any of your bought and paid for congressmen are acceptable as is the spineless excuse for a human being who would serve a law suit to a 12 year old girl.
2. If I lose I will delete all my p2p apps and any files I have that you feel are questionable from my computer forever. If I win you drop ALL lawsuits against p2p users and swear never to sue anyone else for anything related to p2p downloading/uploading etc.
pretty fair deal. I'm waiting, coward. |
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woodhead
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Date: September 10, 2003 @ 12:48 PM
I read this last night, we ned to keep on eye on this, for this in the media ( i Doubt it will show up) but it should be there, for this is an issue for the general public and the general public needs to know this are you listening media people |
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r0dr0ddy
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Date: September 10, 2003 @ 12:50 PM
I'm really not certain that a "hollow and deceptive" claim will fly in court. In fact, it may not even make it to trial.
Whereas I applaud the gentlemen's decision to sue, I feel as if it is misguided. Insofar as the "amnesty" program is voluntary, nobody is forcing consumers to sign up for it, thus the courts will probably uphold the RIAA's defense. |
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dealmein
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Date: September 10, 2003 @ 12:58 PM
rodroddy that is possibly so. but I think his point is that they are misleading the public to turn themselves in without knowing what they (the public is getting into)
I've been reading this site the past few weeks and I love it. I've sent a letter to my congressman (which I've received a standard form letter reply)and both Senators. also I sent an email to each major news network. As far as it getting into the media, I was floored when I read this article on CBS news website. never thought they'd print something like this http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/09/10/tech/main572536.shtml |
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mrbonzo
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Date: September 10, 2003 @ 1:06 PM
As stated, this isn't a violation of rights, particularly the 5th amendment, as it is a willful confession by those who choose to go along with this agreement.
It is, however, deceptive and targeted towards those who will most easily be deceived, children.
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CodeWarrior
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Date: September 10, 2003 @ 1:09 PM
In looking at the complaint, he is using an almost prosecutorial approach under the Deceptive Trade Practices Act that most states have in place.
I gotta give it up to him, it's an interesting plan. There must be a way to help him out and support him.
I say, go get him Eric!!!!
"Mr. Sherman,at long last, sir, have you no sense of decency? Have you no shame?"
~code |
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r0dr0ddy
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Date: September 10, 2003 @ 1:11 PM
dealmein- the RIAA had lawyers draft the wording of the "amnesty" form so that it could stand up to legal challenges. Whereas the program may have its foggy points, I certainly think the courts will rule in the RIAA's favor- even if the ruling isn't morally proper.
And great link! Like yourself, I was taken aback to see the mainstream press slam the RIAA. I'm certain we'll see many more articles like that one in the future. |
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otech1
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Date: September 10, 2003 @ 1:13 PM
Oops, Did the RIAA screw up again ...
Story here
http://www-tech.mit.edu/V123/N38/38riaa.38n.html
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CodeWarrior
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Date: September 10, 2003 @ 1:21 PM
One of our local television channels had one of its talking heads in one of the universities walking toward the camera saying...
"Downloading music...it's fun...it's fast...AND IT'S ILLEGAL!"
I noted the exact time, transcribed his exact statement, and e-mailed the television to report him by name for making a patently false statement on air. I pointed out that downloading music is NOT necessarily illegal. Many indie musicians have their tunes downloadable for free with no copyright restrictions. I said it is copyright infringement possibility if you are downloading music that has been through the copyright registration process, and which you download without prior express permission from the copyright holder, and if the copyright holder objects.
I actually appeared as a guest on their stattion a couple years ago , and know that their philosophy is that if you can't say it in a five word sound byte, it's not newsworthy. LOL..
and so it goes...
~code |
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directive
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Date: September 10, 2003 @ 1:21 PM
I expect the RIAA to be sued like crazy, and thats a good thing, considering there industry is going down the tubes, this will Only speed it UP!!! |
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dealmein
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Date: September 10, 2003 @ 1:27 PM
I love it otech. great article. How many second hand computers are how there with other peoples registration or how many use other family members ISP log in's on different computers. I personally know one fammily, a mother and two daughters, in three seperate cities who use the same AOL account. another expample as to why police and investigative work should be up to law enforcement and not private greedy corporations |
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wiley69
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Date: September 10, 2003 @ 2:08 PM
You mean everything illegal in my lifetime? And why must you persist in yelling? |
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ghosthouse
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Date: September 10, 2003 @ 2:10 PM
You know what this reminds me of? Someone who walks into a supermarket and then samples a piece of candy out of a bulk-food bin, then goes up to a manager and says he shoplifted -- and then winds up in jail with a 250 doller bail. |
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justed
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Date: September 10, 2003 @ 2:16 PM
Otech (Date: September 10, 2003 @ 1:13 PM):
So, RIAA takes on Theta Delta Chi… gee, I wonder how they’ll all take to that?
Theta Delta Chi fratboys, they be some mean mofo’s.
lol
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Jazzmary2U
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Date: September 10, 2003 @ 2:25 PM
Code.. sounds like a case of "I'm Whit-less News" Sad that it is not unusual, tho.. Great news post, BYW.. Dmusic.. you guys/gals ROCK!! :hyper: |
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Jazzmary2U
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Date: September 10, 2003 @ 2:30 PM
What angers me most:furious: about this stupid lawsuit business is.. They did not let the 12-year-old's family off with a warning as maybe a judge would have done. Go, and sin no more.. even on the other side of the argument, this seems stupid. The only way you can come to a black/white conclusion like this is if you have total monopolistic control.. well, at least in your "mind", anyway.. and your motive is total greed. |
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red5
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Date: September 10, 2003 @ 2:39 PM
Now this guy is a true American hero! When so many people are hellbent on destorying the country, this guy is doing something to make it better! Good luck to him and I hope it gets him billions! |
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red5
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Date: September 10, 2003 @ 2:39 PM
Now this guy is a true American hero! When so many people are hellbent on destorying the country, this guy is doing something to make it better! Good luck to him and I hope it gets him billions! Or at least every penny that the RIAA can sue people for! |
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ConsumersAbyss
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Date: September 10, 2003 @ 2:43 PM
Thats just good stuff. Can he actualy sue for money or just to have the offer done away with? It would be great it someone sued them for mucho cash and gave the money to pay off the settlements the RIAA has made. |
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gdZiemann
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Date: September 10, 2003 @ 2:50 PM
RIAA -- You've lied so often and with such callous disregard for anything resembling ethics that there is no reason to believe anything you say.
Kiss our collective asses. |
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CodeWarrior
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Date: September 10, 2003 @ 2:54 PM
IT'S THE Z-MAN...GEORGE...SENDING A WHASSUP AND CRAZY PROPS TO THE "OG"
OF THIS MOVEMENT.
Great to have you back George. Big smile brother!
~code |
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PhantomGhost
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Date: September 10, 2003 @ 2:58 PM
well, it's been a while since I've seen George make a post. This guy is fantastic. He may not be a real P2P enthausist, but he's suing the RIAA. Now, think of what would happen if thousands of consumers all sued the RIAA! Even if they didn't win, it's case overload for the record labels. Their attorneys would be so busy responding to our lawsuits that they wouldn't have time to hunt down people who use P2P. Pooling our funds collectively if necessary, we could be a strong force as well as an influence in congress. We have money and votes. The RIAA has lots of money but few votes. If thousands of consumers teamed together- thousands- and each filed a lawsuit- down goes the RIAA. |
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Anti-RIAA
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Date: September 10, 2003 @ 3:02 PM
Question: Has any media mentioned the boycott just once? |
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axxis
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Date: September 10, 2003 @ 3:03 PM
Hey RIAA:
We don't need your bullshit rhetoric in this forum.
You guys are nothing but a bunch of damned liars.
Take yourself and your sorry-ass opinions out of here BEFORE I THROW YOU OUT . . . PERIOD!!!!! |
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bmarsden
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Date: September 10, 2003 @ 3:19 PM
Let's pick a Saturday and organize pickets against every record/cd store in town that sells RIAA product - The RIAA boycott day. Get the retailers to push back against the RIAA.
Distribute leaflets promoting independent labels that are not RIAA members.
Thanks |
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purfus
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Date: September 10, 2003 @ 3:20 PM
ctually he has a good case against them. While its not illegal to lie. It is illegal to pull the old switcha roo, I have no idea what the legal term for it is. But basically a merchant can not in good faith offer you one product only to sell you another if they give you the impression you will be recieving the first. So by saying they are offering amnesty and actually giving them another they are breaking some contract law. Like I say I don't remember what it is called, but I remember studying it in law class. I was probably half awake, but I that was the jest of it.... |
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Emenius
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Date: September 10, 2003 @ 3:26 PM
Axxis, the posts by the RIAA themed name appear to be comical in nature. well, not saying the RIAA's tactics (suing little girls and old men) havn't made me chuckle. Besides, do you really think the RIAA would bother signing up for the forums? |
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Ripandburn
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Date: September 10, 2003 @ 3:30 PM
Quite simple folks, The accused are more than likley sharing files and no tpaying...That's all it is about, money. The lawsuit is not gonna change the letter of he law...
Predictions:
261 lawsuits
261 settlements.
Lot's of media for the RIAA's cause.
Me downloading songs knowing full well, that out of 60 million swappers, they aint gonna hit me...
Do you folks realize yu have a better chance of getting struck by lightning than getting pinched by the RIAA...Wake up......
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boycottearth
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Date: September 10, 2003 @ 3:31 PM
VICTORY!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm so glad I didn't sign into that crap. |
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kneo24
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Date: September 10, 2003 @ 4:11 PM
This is a bit offtopic:
I submitted this story to slashdot and they refused it, like every other story that I submit to them that's from here.
I find this to be irritating and amusing at the same time. Often times, this place gets the scoop before most other news sources. Then days later news sources will start to pick up on the story. Why is this? Why is this place not viewed as credible? |
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surfside6
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Date: September 10, 2003 @ 4:31 PM
Bulletin:
RIAa will sue the black hole.
Your reporter Compost Heap reporting.
Today after astronomers announced that have detected the deepest note ever generated in the cosmos, a B-flat, the RIAa announced that they will sue it.
I. Sue Freely, legal spokesman for the RIAa said "I think we have a case, this hole has been making a B-Flat for Billions of years. Since we own the copyright to B-Flat we plan to sue it under the DCMA. Mabel, the subpoena clerk at the Justice Department is prepairing the subpoena right now. And we have NASA lined up to deliver it as soon as it is ready."
The black-hole only had one comment..."B-Flat".
Thats the news for now, Compost Heap reporting. |
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mroop
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Date: September 10, 2003 @ 4:43 PM
Hey dummies:
Do you know what "standing" means?
Motion for summary judgement: GRANTED.
Case: DISMISSED!
LOL |
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nailedshutpunk
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Date: September 10, 2003 @ 4:46 PM
i say that we picket the riaa headquarters. send a message straight to mrs cary sue. get there before he does and make sure he gets to meet us all face to face or fist to face. |
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stopthemadness
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Date: September 10, 2003 @ 5:09 PM
the tactics that the riaa is doing is just downright low and the only way to stick it to them is to boycott. hit them in the pockets by not buying any of thier music and for all of us to unite. i knew that the shamnesty scam is just a farce all along to hook all downloaders of music that of which is no different than copying a television program off of Tivo.this infringement thing has gone too far and the only way to go at them is to fight and boycott.by the way this is my first post. |
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captdunsel
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Date: September 10, 2003 @ 5:28 PM
hey mroop riaa troll
crawl back in your hole and die. when the ss comes and takes you away don't look for help from anyone else. you wanted it. |
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napstersghost
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Date: September 10, 2003 @ 5:38 PM
Mroop = RIAA's bitch |
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woodhead
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Date: September 10, 2003 @ 5:51 PM
stopthemadness
Welcome stopthemadness |
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mroop
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Date: September 10, 2003 @ 6:03 PM
Hey! The case will be dismissed!
You want the truth?
YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!
"i say that we picket the riaa headquarters."
Yeah, too bad you are too lazy to get off your ass and actually do something. You are all talk! |
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captdunsel
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Date: September 10, 2003 @ 6:13 PM
mroop, sorry if I misunderstood your position. my hostility is aimed at the riaa not anyone else |
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DWEXK
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Date: September 10, 2003 @ 6:32 PM
I wish I could see a copy of that affidavit. I took a law class this summer for a school enrichment program, and we talked about copyright law. Anyone know where to find it? |
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kneo24
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Date: September 10, 2003 @ 6:40 PM
This article is on Wired: http://www.wired.com/news/digiwood/0,1412,60376,00.html |
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achaye
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Date: September 10, 2003 @ 6:56 PM
"Yeah, too bad you are too lazy to get off your ass and actually do something. You are all talk!"
-mroop
This from the guy who calls himself a professional lawyer, but yet insists on attacking individuals personally, blatantly instituting his "mental superiority" of the matter while hardly refuting the actual statements of the individual. All talk indeed.
In any case, this amnesty thing is purely a publicity stunt on the surface, trying to win back the average citizen undoubtedly. But what a crock of bull it is; so much has been said about it previously that I'll just leave it at that. |
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RingdemBells
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Date: September 10, 2003 @ 7:10 PM
Many people predicted on this board and abroad that there would be victims of this ridiculous campaign including children, the elderly, the infirm, the unemployed...etc. |
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the1deadpoet
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Date: September 10, 2003 @ 7:12 PM
Purfus, I think it's called "Bait and Switch"? My Dad always mentions that a lot when he buys at Fry's Electronics. |
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JBurning
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Date: September 10, 2003 @ 7:23 PM
Almost sounds like this guy is trying to cash in on recent events. Main reason I think this is because the guy has "never downloaded music", and yet he's adamant enough about it to take the RIAA to court? Also, wouldn't it have more of an affect if, say, all the people who downloaded music, or even all those who had signed the amnesty "deal" were to sue? Suing on the basis of "hollow and deceptive" sounds to me like the guy needs a quick buck, and found his cash cow. |
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Emeraude
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Date: September 10, 2003 @ 8:04 PM
mroop, the RIAA might win some court cases, (more than likely from "buying" judges) or settle out of court with others, but what about after that? Winning a few battles in no way will result in winning this war!
I have over 1300 mp3's on my computer, and I know the day will come when I can send MY money directly to the artist who deserves it for the songs I love. Why are you so against us paying the artist directly? Everyone I know downloads, or has downloaded and loves the idea of sending money directly to the artist! So we don't necessarily want music for free, we just want our money to go to who really deserves it. The RIAA DOES NOT deserve our money!
You claim we are "stealing" music, but when we want to have a way to pay our favorite artists DIRECTLY, you still accuse us of stealing! Why not help us get money DIRECTLY to the artists, instead of trying to force us to pay the RIAA? You people are so far out numbered, you cannot win! Lawsuits will only result in corporate suicide, as you WILL see!
YOU CANNOT HANDLE THE TRUTH! The RIAA is dying! Think about this, we DO NOT "need" music from them to survive, but they sure do "need" our money to survive! Well, I, and a fastly growing number of former CD buyers are not buying any longer! WE WANT THEM TO DIE, and we know how to "kill" them! NO MORE MONEY! And not you or anyone else can MAKE us fork over OUR money! Money from lawsuits won't last them long, and then they will need customers again! Customers that they have financially raped, stabbed in the back, and lied to for far too long! Now they are being exposed at the very core of their evil being, and their FORMER customers are NEVER going to go back to them! Most people won't let themselves get slapped in the face more than once by the bad guy! |
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Seikatsu
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Date: September 10, 2003 @ 8:16 PM
mroop, Yoda says, "STFU, you must."
Alright people (excluding mroop for not being a person, and for being RIAA's lapdog.) How many people are near MTV's HQ for Total Rigged Live oops I meant Request. |
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allan1850
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Date: September 10, 2003 @ 9:12 PM
everyone says we are wrong because we are "stealing music." was Martin Luther King Jr. wrong for getting arrested because he believed that all men are truely created equal, while the law did not. was Ghandi wrong for breaking the law when the british refuse to let go of india. we are not wrong, we are breaking the law to defend justice. to defend our rights. |
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DADO-1
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Date: September 10, 2003 @ 10:26 PM
This seems more of a media blitz, who suing who, truth to be spoken is the RIAA has nazied everyone for along time in contracts. Let stop the lies and truely be fair in in paying the people that make the music, not a bunch of tone deaf fat cat looking to exploit people with dreams. Freedom has a meaning or has all the people before us fought in vane. Peace to you and yours. PEACE |
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mtekk
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Date: September 10, 2003 @ 11:03 PM
Go Eric ! In California He has a good chance of winning, some law over there forces companys, and orginisations, to hold true to ther promises, to it's residence, since the RIAA has no intention of Holding True to their promis, he has a ligit case, Oh yeah, this will last several months. |
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RythmMethod
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Date: September 11, 2003 @ 12:40 AM
Is there chance that mroop is doug77? They both seem to have an IQ the same as their hat size. |
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anybody2005
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Date: September 11, 2003 @ 2:12 AM
checkout this thread:
http://la.indymedia.org/news/2003/09/81790.php
and http://www.ifla.org/documents/infopol/copyright/ipmyths.htm
any street teams planned for September in CA? any protests / direct actions? |
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anybody2005
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Date: September 11, 2003 @ 2:16 AM
sorry - i don't know why those didn't come out right.... |
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MerylStryfe
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Date: September 11, 2003 @ 4:42 AM
Right on, Emeraude! |
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eaglefreed
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Date: September 11, 2003 @ 10:21 AM
".. As far as artists making money off live shows and merchandise - what about the songwriter? What about the producer? These people don't make any money from live shows and merchandise. A songwriter writing a beautiful song doesn't deserve to get paid? Second, the artist making money from live shows and merchandise was promoted by the record company or no one would be at the show buying a ticket and a t-shirt."
For one thing the song writers, usually the are artist themselves. Then the idea that the record company's pay out of there own pocket for the promotions? ARE YOU CRAZY? Then you have the bands managers, just what do they do if the record company does all of this wonderful stuff for the artist? There does seem to be lots of misinformation on both sides of the argument. But the facts are that the Creator of napster did offer the RIAA a chance to profit from the service and they not only declined but forced him out of business. Not to mention it to a court order in order For the RIAA to allow apple to offer the music. Two years ago i would have agreed to pay .99 cents per song to get the songs that i want. But now I am so disillusioned with the whole recording industries i will not buy any new Cd's. before napster fiasco i would buy 6-10 CD's a year now I don't buy any, I record the songs off of the radio then put them on my computer the digitally enhance them. a process that has been done for years and the record industries wasn't worried about even though the principle is the same as whats going on today |
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theoutsider
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Date: September 11, 2003 @ 10:54 AM
This guy is 100% right, all the RIAA wants you to do is admit that you have downloaded music so they can sue you. The Riaa should be going after the people that download music AND sell it, not the people that download it fot thier personal use. Don't these bastards have anything better to do??? I totally support this guy and i hope he wins!!!
-the outsider |
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zeitgheist
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Date: September 11, 2003 @ 12:07 PM
guys (and gals)-who cares WHY he is suing?
maybe hes rich and bored....
maybe hes crazy
maybe he believe as we do......
who cares? anyway you slice it, it dont make the riaa look good. end of story.
as for myself, ill take whatever help i can get. the ends justifies the means, in this case.
support eric or the riaa? easy choice i think.
~time flies~ |
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Remye
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Date: September 12, 2003 @ 10:25 AM
Purfus, it's called Bait and Switch, and it's labeled as a Deceptive Trade Practice. A store (company, car dealer or book store as well) cannot say that one thing is for sale (falsely), then when you get there, "oops, we're all out of what was on sale, but we've got this other thing that's just a little more money". Read the fine print in some tv ad. They say "we've got cars for 100bucks", then in the fine print, they tell you they've got ONE of them, give you the relevant numbers, and bam, they're off the hook since they did indeed have ONE.
Code: guess my idea sort of took off. Man, we ROCK. This was the (sort of) basis for the class action I asked about in another forum. Glad someone had the plums (and the cash) to run with it. It's going to be interesting what the talking heads in the media call this guy. Is he doin it for the money? The "15 minutes of fame"?
Who cares? He's doin it!
ttmmm |
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